Episode Transcript
[00:00:00]
I'm here today with a special guest who's the owner and the creator of the Money Speakeasy. And he comes highly recommended as a financial coach whose clientele is predominantly black women, which is near and dear to my heart. And so we know typically that if we address the needs of black women, we address the needs of all women in between.
And that's our goal here because Single, Mother by Choice are not just black women. They're not just white women. They are everybody and all of the people in between. I will say that one of the things that really drew [00:01:00] me to my guest is the story about how your parents taught you about , financial planning and financial literacy, it stuck with me and I knew that we needed to get you on because it fits where I am, both as an adult trying to get my financial life together, and then where I am in this stage of parenting my children where I'm teaching my eight year old how to handle money and what to do with money, and I really do wanna set a strong financial foundation for her as well as being a role model for how to handle money when she becomes an adult.
I am going to ask you to introduce yourself before we jump into this episode and do share a little bit about your story.
Excellent. Excellent. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. I, Wilson Muscadin in founder of the Money Speakeasy financial coach.
I think first thing I would do is describe a little bit about the difference between a financial coach and financial advisor. And then I'll give you a little bit of background into how I got into this stuff. So so first for [00:02:00] financial coach if we just take, took a step back for a second and thought about your whole financial journey.
Let's say your whole financial journey from your first job when you finished school, all the way to, let's say your completely financially independent, right? Let's call that 15 stages of finances. So from stage one to stage 15 the financial services industry in general is really designed to set up and to help folks that are essentially on stages 11 through 15.
And that's where you were really talking about, investible assets that are outside of your 401k. You're thinking about estate planning, wealth building, that kind of thing. But the truth is and I found this throughout my financial services career, I've been in financial services for 20 years is that 90% of Americans are dealing with stages one through 10.
In stages one through 10, we're talking about budgeting, we're talking about saving. We're talking about paying off debt, student loans.
We're talking about Single, Mother by Choice raising up starting a family. How, how do I make that financially? So you can't necessarily walk into, let's say I'll pick on Bank of America and say, Hey, you know, I'm really thinking about paying off these student [00:03:00] loans and I'm thinking about, you know, which credit card I should pay off first.
Who can I talk to about that? They're gonna be like unless you want to take out a loan or you want to talk to our financial planners we don't have anything for you. And so throughout my financial career, I really wanted to help out help folks on stages one through 10 so that they'd be prepared for those conversations on 11th through 15.
Cuz the truth is most folks don't get to necessarily stages 11 through 15, and I wanted to help usher people there. So that's the difference between a financial coach helping you on stages one through 10 and the financial advisor that's really about the, the investments in helping you grow wealth in stages 11 through 15.
So that's how I became a financial coach. I really wanted to help people on those, on those first stages. And then you asked me about my parents and my background. . So I didn't realize that my background in terms of personal finances stuff was, really different until I got to college.
But my father didn't really believe in paying me to do chores, right? I didn't have an allowance for chores. He didn't believe in paying me for doing things that I was supposed to do, but he did give me an allowance to read books and write book reports on the books that he assigned.
And many of those books are [00:04:00] actually behind me, if you can see me on screen. Mm-hmm. . And it just so happened that many of those books were personal finance books. So my dad and I have been having these personal finance discussions and, you know, all, kinds of books since I was a preteen.
And I didn't realize that that was kind of weird or different until I got to college. And and back in those days, talking late nineties, early two thousands. Where debit cards weren't really a thing. So when I saw, when I got to school and saw people using a credit card to buy, like pizza and and drinks and stuff like that, I was like, things are a little different here.
Like, what's going on? Why are people doing these things? And so that's when I realized that things were different. So that sort of set me on a journey to always want to help people and be more open about talking about people's finance.
So, thank you for that. And we will come back to how you got started on your journey.
But I did wanna delve into something that we talked about earlier when we talked about setting the groundwork for what an initial intake would look like. Because as a black person or a person of color or even a woman, you know, we [00:05:00] typically are kind of nervous when it comes to dealing with money.
We don't want to necessarily deal with a lot of the judgment that might come from life choices. And, in particular, I'll speak from the perspective of. a black Single Mother by Choice, right? So some of the choices that I've had to make doesn't necessarily align with what is traditionally done with money, right?
Myself or just, what we do in black families, right? And so I will say that when I came to my Single Mother by Choice journey, I was probably in a better position than I am now. so I had the 401k, had the savings, and then I had the great idea to. , I can have a baby on my own, right?
Mm-hmm. . And so I looked at my account statements, I'm like, I could do this. Now, my first pregnancy was a $5,000 pregnancy. The second pregnancy was a six figure pregnancy. And so now I'm in a bit of a quagmire. Yeah. And so kind of like if you've ever gotten a house cleaner, it's like, how can I clean up this [00:06:00] house before the cleaner gets here?
Right? Yeah. And so I know that I, I want to be more proactive and I want to have a more concrete plan with my, finances going into the future cuz I've got too little people to put through college. Right? Yeah. but that fear of judgment. is a wall that stands between me getting the help that I want and actually taking the steps to do that, because I don't want to have the judgment about, well, why did you spend six figures for the second baby?
Was she necessary? Right. And so can you take me through your approach to an initial intake and how you go about setting someone at ease? Yeah, I
think the, the judgment thing is a big thing when it comes to money. I often talk about money as being one of the last remaining taboos in our culture.
And and the reason I say that is because you know, there was a time where, talking about sex or religion or politics was taboo, right? and now like it seems that it's all we talk about and we talk about it publicly on social media and this kind of thing. But you know, of oftentimes when I speak in in [00:07:00] public and groups and I often ask.
a group or a crowd to say for example, how many of you guys know how much your best friend makes or how much how much debt your best friend has? And, you know, half of the hands go in the air, right? Like, it's more likely, you know who the last couple people that your best friend slept with than you do about their finances, right?
Like, you know more about your best friend's sex life than you do about their finances. And so that's why I say that money is one of those last remaining taboos. And with that sort of taboo comes a lot of blame, shame, and guilt, And so with that trifecta with money, it becomes difficult to talk about those kinds of things.
so my job as a financial coach is I try to create an environment, a no judgment zone when I'm working with my clients because Any of that blame or shame or guilt, I don't want to add to any of that, It's already there. It's already present.
The last thing I want to do is to add to that, so oftentimes in this intake process, what I'm trying to glean from my clients is, Hey, look your decisions about your finances have nothing to do with me. you earn your own money and you get to [00:08:00] decide what you want to do with it.
So when we're talking about what your plan or strategy is, it's my job as a financial coach. I want to be a mirror to you to hold you accountable, that your finances reflect your priorities, values, and goals, not mine, yours, And so all I'm doing is essentially challenging you. to align your savings and spendings with what you say your priorities and values and goals are. And so if you think about it that way, as opposed to a spreadsheet exercise, then I think we can have a better conversation about is this a priority?
And if so, are you spending the most on what's most important to you and the least on what's least important to you? And if we can get there, then I think we have a, conversation that is less based on what my personal feelings are or what personal finance rules of the day versus here's how I want to allocate my money.
So my job is to help you being an informed consumer and then informed saver to allocate your finances according to your values, priorities, and goals. And that's how I look at financial coaching.
Okay. So yeah, [00:09:00] so I like that. I think if I bring my accordion file, do people still carry accordion files when they show up
Like with all of my papers and receipts hanging out? ?
Indeed, indeed, my father still works with them, but I don't, I don't know. You may be hanging on to an old generation. I, I don't know, but about according.
Yeah, I'm kind of in between the accordion file and shifting over into the, the more digital world.
Okay. we get a lot, of people who are getting started on the Single Mother by Choice journey. And one of the first questions they have is how, how do you finance it? And so when we last spoke, you talked about a baby checklist a baby account that you might tell people who come to you and say, Hey, I'm thinking about this, journey.
You know, what are some ways that I could finance it? Like if they come to me and I'm like, yeah, what do you have in savings? You know? Yeah. Do you have insurance coverage? But what would you say to someone who was considering becoming a Single Mother by Choice?
And they said, Hey, , you know, Wilson, I'm [00:10:00] thinking about this. How might I go about financing this? What might that conversation look like?
Yeah, it depends on on what route they're trying to go in terms of that process. But you know, the first and best option is your savings, And and planning ahead. And when I say savings, I'm talking about cash savings. I don't, wanna jump into the investments and raiding investment accounts immediately. But I'm, I'm talking about savings and I think for part of these things, particularly, from a Single Mother by choice a lot of this stuff.
Is about planning. You don't want to get caught by surprise with stuff. You're going to get caught by surprise for stuff. But I always say you want to have a plan, and if things go left, then at least you have a, you, you have something that you started with as opposed to just kind of jumping in.
And we'll just see how this goes. Because that's on, I think things can can financially spiral in, in different directions. So I think. It's best to start to work with your savings first and have an idea of what these things cost, right? So, you know, generally speaking, and I'm, I'm talking averages, right?
Mm-hmm. , so we live in different areas of the country. So [00:11:00] when I say these numbers, I don't want you to hold on to 'em cuz it's different prices in New York and California than it is in West Virginia, right? Uhhuh, . And so But if we're, if we're just talking about the first year of a child's life and I'll, I can send you these links and we'll have 'em in the show notes, but we're talking about the first year of, of Baby's life is probably anywhere from 15 to $17,000.
And if you're talking about the cost of raising a child from, birth to 17 years old. I think there's a US Department of Agriculture study that's putting it at about $310,000.
And that's on average, that's average of the entire United States. I think that's about 17,000 a year, right? So 17,000 a year for 17 years. And so not that you have to have $310,000 in the bank before you decide to have the child. That's not what I'm saying. And that's not including the cost of College
But what I'm saying is that you know, If $17,000 seems like a mountain to you right now, then we need to start having some conversations [00:12:00] about what that could look like. Personally particularly with our first child I. I knew for my own sanity that I wanted to have, a literal baby savings account.
It was name named Baby Savings, and I had that account like I, you know, like , I'm, I'm a planner . And so so for me, I needed to have that account to have that sense of security. But for, from my own head, I thought, well, if I have the cash there, at least I know that I have the first year expenses because here's what I've sort of calculated real life. If there's any sort of health issues or anything like that, it can be a totally different story. So I just want to make sure that that that was there before we even got into this.
So as you can tell, I'm a little bit conservative as to finances . So there is a little the planning and over planning. But there's a sense also of like, I want to be nimble if stuff goes left.
All right, so let me frame this a bit , the Single Mother by Choice demographic in terms of age will range from 25 to let's say 55. Yeah. Okay. And so my generation let's set their [00:13:00] them aside for a second. We'll come back to the. 40 and over. Yeah.
But we are getting a significant number of people who are coming to this path in their early to late twenties. Yeah. So, and we do have a standard kind of phrasing that if you're thinking about conceiving and you're wondering if you can afford it, Call around, find out how much daycare costs, and try to save that for a year.
Yeah. So worst case scenario, you have that baby fund, right? Yeah. Kind of just saved and sitting there, and you're better prepared for whatever surprises trying to conceive might bring to you. So, so what, what, what advice would you give someone who is in their late twenties going into their early thirties, thinking about conceiving a child on their own?
Yeah.
If you heard me say $15,000 and you're like, holy cow, there's no way I can say $15,000. What I would say is like sometimes people have an all or nothing you know, mentality [00:14:00] about things. And you know, is, is it possible for you to get a portion of that?
I think people are much more comfortable when they have and they're able to, psychologically weather a storm if they have savings because they know that they have some sort of security. And particularly for those Single, Mother by Choice community that, that level of security is really, really, really important, right?
And having that sense of I can handle stuff if things go left, like there is a, a, a little bit of a financial safety net if things go left. And just the practice of saving consistently on a regular basis is important. It's more about the practice of saving on a consistent basis and planning stuff out.
Being able to research and say, , here's what I think that I need. Here's what I need to put away every two weeks or each month. The practice of that is more important than the dollar about. That's what I would say
to them. Okay. Yeah, I like that. I like that. And, and we do get a significant. Number of people who are in that range that are just like, okay, so I got the [00:15:00] house checked off on my list, you know, so now what's next?
Right. Yeah. So they're trying to shore up that foundation because I think they realize that they time is on their side to an extent when you're in your late twenties, right? Yeah. Most people hit panic mode as a Single Mother by Choice when they hit about 36, because you're on the cusp of fertility taking, you know, a detour mm-hmm.
and this being easy, and you don't know which side you're gonna be on. Right. But a lot of the, a lot of the, the people will say, okay, I got the house. Is now a good time to make a career transition? And then, I'm also saving. So now we'll shift gears to people who are in my demographic.
Oh, if, if I could just add one more thing before that. Yep. The other thing that's really important about building that savings and that practice is that you also are telling yourself that you can live on less than you earn each month. Right. And so inherent in that, being able to save whatever that amount is each month is also the discipline of being [00:16:00] able to know that even if your income went down or you had to find another job that paid less, or you know, whatever it is, like, you know that you have the ability to to live on less.
And if you make more, you know, you, you know where you can live. So that that extra that you do make, if you get a raise or whatnot. can be put aside, like you can, you can set your sort of standard of income and know that you can do more with with the
extra. Yeah. I love that. And I think that's the one thing that saved me, right?
Because so similar to you, like you, you have, you have two kids, and when you talk about that first pregnancy, that first pregnancy can, you know, kind of be what have you? I will say when I went to my initial consultation and the frame of reference I was coming from was that, oh my gosh, I'm doing this on my own.
I have to do I V F and there is something in between. There's i u I and that's like significantly less like orders of magnitude less. Oh wow. But, I had always lived beneath my means. And so I had enough of a cushion to say, okay, what I don't have to do, I V f, I can do this thing [00:17:00] that's cheaper, right? Yeah.
And so and so that got me through at least the first attempt and then the first few years with my one child. Now I'm going to shift gears just a little bit to talk about the people who end up on a longer or tougher journey and then they have to get more creative with their finances.
Don't do what I did, I went into it not anticipating, having trouble getting pregnant with my second child, and I ended up saying, okay, I'm gonna set aside this amount. . And in order to do that, I did have to tap my 401k, but I was fine.
Compound interest worked for me earlier in my career, but then it kind of spiraled, right? And so what I tried to keep in mind, I didn't do a lot of things right. But my thought process throughout the entire thing was as I paid more money, I used savings, I had a, a second job, but the, the bulk of the cushion was coming from that 401k.
I knew I had the procedure amount covered. And so, [00:18:00] but what I tried to keep in mind was that with each dollar that I spent trying to get this child, once that child was here, if I went into debt, I would have to pay the debt, childcare, and. Sustain our lifestyle. Yeah. And so, and I think that that is a crossroads that many of us will get to if your journey takes longer.
So what advice would you have for even strategizing around that? And I think some people who are just getting started might have the benefit of hindsight being 2020 for me. So what advice might you give? Yeah,
I, I think again, this is sort of a planning conversation because I think oftentimes if you're having one child, you kind of want to know if in fact you're thinking about having a second.
Cuz the planning comes in almost immediately. Right. The more time that you have to plan this out the more options that you have. But I, what I will say is that, cash first, I'm not gonna shame people for taking out of their 401k, I think again, this is more about what you value most. And if that is of value to you, I [00:19:00] think you want to put yourself in a position to be successful with that.
you do wanna balance that with if I'm putting my retirement at risk, How do I balance that versus what could or could not possibly happen, right?
Mm-hmm. .And so I think that there's a balance and there's some serious conversations there. One of the advantages I have as being a financial coach is that I'm completely unbiased, so I don't sell products or services. I Could just say, you know what you know, these are your pros and cons of these different options. Mm-hmm. . I think it is a a matter. , looking at your choices and making sure that you're making the best informed decision. Knowing pros and cons, and then checking that with somebody that's unbiased to be able to check you on that.
And be able to have that discussion this what I'm thinking. Am I missing anything?
Mm-hmm. , I think those are sort of the important discussions, but everybody's situation's gonna be a little bit different. I would lean towards planning as much as you can. Mm-hmm.
So now both kids are here. Yeah. And I wanna start a college plan. So yeah, a conversation that comes up a lot of times in our community is, do you put away for retirement? Do you start the 5 [00:20:00] 29? Is there merit to the 5 29? Or do you just go the old savings account route?
personally, I'm a fan of five 20 nines.
But I am retirement first 5 29. And the reason that I say that is you can borrow for college, you cannot borrow for retirement.
Right? Okay. And you also do not want to be a financial burden on the children that you went through so much to, to bring into the world, right? so it is not selfish to put away for retirement. Again, I'm always careful when I put out guidelines you know, if you're putting away 15% of your income for retirement at that point, and particularly if you get a match from your company, at that point then I would say, okay, then if you have some left over, then let's talk about the 5 29 situation.
Okay. I know I was not 100% clear on what the benefits of the 5 29 are.
I started one only because there was some free money out there in my state. so I started one for each of the kids. What are the benefits of the 5 29?
5 29 have a couple benefits. you can, sign up for a 5 29 in [00:21:00] any state in the country, regardless of where you live.
If you do sign up for a 5 29 in the state that you live there is a potential for state tax benefits. Also with the five $29, they can essentially grow tax free as long as you use them on education expenses. And you can use that for education expenses for the, child whose name you put it in that can go to their sibling.
It can also go to grad school. there's a variety of uses for it. So it's, it's pretty flexible, but it does have to be for educational uses. There are even situations where, let's say your child does not go to college and you wanted to take, further education you can pull that money back and use it for your own educational purposes. Mm-hmm. . So some people don't like the fact that they have to use it for educational purposes. And so they, they feel like it's restricted in our regard. But the general benefits are you're basically using it grow tax free, meaning that the interest on the money that's growing in there is not taxed.
So it's, it's shielding taxes a little bit. And you can use it in a variety of ways. You can use it for siblings.
You can even use it for grandchildren. So that's why a lot of people like the program. [00:22:00] And the potential for tax benefits in your state.
Okay, cool. So before we shift gears I wanna go back to the beginning of the conversation. So I get my , my accordion file, and I'm like, I'm gonna visit Wilson. Yeah. what do I need to do to prepare for that initial visit? Should I plan to bring my documents? What, what should I plan to do for that first?
So so as a financial coach, I initially when I'm working with somebody, I I'm trying to understand what their goals are, what their values are. We don't start necessarily digging into the numbers first. I think it's Gandhi that has a quote that that your, beliefs become your thoughts, your thoughts become your words, your words, kinds of actions.
Actions become habits. Habits become values, and values become destiny. So oftentimes we want to start just digging right into the numbers. And particularly in those stages one through 10 most people don't realize that personal finance is probably about 80% behavior and really 20% finance.
And so in our first initial conversations, what I'm really trying to get at is [00:23:00] where's your head in terms of. your finances and what you want, what your goals and values and priorities are. Because if I'm gonna be your accountability partner towards your values, priorities, and goals, that's what I really need to get a firm understanding of.
So before we dive into papers and all this kinds of stuff, what I really want to understand is what is it that you want to achieve and what is most important to you? And then we can have the discussion, okay, here's what you said was really important to you. Did I get that right?
Here are the top five things. These are the most important things to me in my life. Then we can look at the papers and say, well, here's what the papers say based on the numbers are the five most important to you. And so there's some incongruency here, and so let's work on making. What you say you value the most congruent with what you spend your most money on.
And so that's the kind of conversation that we would have going forward.
Okay. I like that. I like that. So there were two things you mentioned that you would recommend for SMCs or just any people who are thinking about having children is to have the baby fund.
And then a [00:24:00] baby checklist.
Yeah, yeah. I so on my website, and I'll send you the link so you have it in your show notes I have an article about, you know where we found out there's a baby on the way, how do we get prepared? And so we talked about some of the things that we just talked about in our conversation about, alright, what does that mean?
Like, what are the first, second and third things that I need to do? So on that is a free checklist, maternity checklist on the site. It's called Baby on the Way, maternity Financial Checklist. And it just goes through a range of things for you to really go through to say, okay did I check with hr?
do I understand how, the health insurance is gonna work? And just making sure that you're covering all your bases so that you're best prepared for this plan that we're talking about.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I think the listeners would appreciate that.
Okay, so shifting gears, so one of the reasons I knew I had to get you on the show as I mentioned earlier, I love the story you told about your parents teaching you about financial literacy. And it's timely because that's where I currently am with my own kids.
So when my oldest daughter will call her Noel, cuz that's her real name, , when she turned seven, started, you know, asking for [00:25:00] things and I figured she was aware enough to be able to start getting more concrete about money. And so I got her this piggy. And I don't know if you can see it has. Okay. I love it.
Yes. They spend, donate and invest and , so she gets a dollar for every year of her life. So now that she's eight, she gets $8. And so we separate, we do the whole routine. She gets her allowance and we bring out the piggy bank and then she has to separate her money into these different pots. And so that is as far as I've gotten with financial literacy, for her so that she is aware that donate is a thing, that invest is a thing, that savings is a thing.
Spend, they always get that part. I wanted to get your advice on how do we set a firm financial literacy foundation for our children. What's your approach to that?
Yeah. So first of all great job, mom. In terms of the the piggy bank, I think it's really important to [00:26:00] understand those four things.
Those are essentially the four things that you can do with money. Give, save, spend, and invest. Oftentimes what I teach folks is to give first, save second, and spend third. With every dollar that comes in how much you can determine yourself.
But just having that habit with money is just a really good practice overall to think about how to manage finances,
I used to joke that that money's like a, like a, like a toddler that it can, if you take your eye off, it can disappear in a second, right?
Mm-hmm. , and secondly, and just in terms of saving I mentioned this before, the practice of saving is much more important than the amount. Saving consistently is a habit. So when I talked about behaviors versus, you know, knowing the, the knowledge and the nuance, Saving is really about the habit of saving.
It's not necessarily, whether, you know the difference between a 5 29 and a Roth, I r a mm-hmm. . It's really the behaviors that are, that are the most important. That gets you 80% of the way there. And one of those habits is saving on a consistent basis. Whether you save in, you know, cash savings or whether [00:27:00] you're putting it into.
a kids savings account. So I think those are the conversations. So give first, save second, spend, third. But lastly, what I would add is the best thing that you can do for your kids is to manage your finances and take them and on that journey with you mm-hmm.
They will reflect more what you do than what you. . Mm-hmm. . And so if there, if, if you have, you know, if Amazon is coming to your house every single day, , you know,
now, now I feel judged. I feel judged.
Oh, oh, oh. I just, I just got a notification 10 minutes ago. They, they, my package just arrived.
But but my broader point is, you know if they have that expectation that things just arrive and there's no conversation or context around how these things came to be. Even, your own process of budgeting, how much money we make as a household?
What do we allocate that to? And this may be more of a teenager thing, but like, . You know, the reason people think that money come out of thin air is because they've never had those [00:28:00] discussions about money. And, they just think, well, things just appeared. I swiped a card or I swiped my phone, and Right.
I just got it. I just walked out of the store. Like, that's how it's always been. Like we just walk into a grocery store, we pick things off of the shelf, we swipe our phone and we walk out. And so that's you want to have those conversations to give children the context behind where the resources for these things came from.
Yeah, now, I do wanna double down on the donate when you said give first. And I think that that's one of the foundations that I'm trying to set in my household. So when I started giving my daughter an allowance and we started talking about the different parts of the bank, we talked about, the donate part.
And so she's just like, well, what does donate? And so it's just like, well, you know, it's when you give to, to charity or you give to organizations that have benefited you or that you care about and you know, the different types of organizations. And so each year on a Tuesday, November, they do giving Tuesday.
Yeah. Yeah. And so since she has this whole donate part of her bank that just sits [00:29:00] there and just grows throughout the year, we get to giving Tuesday and she gets to take all that money and we
decide
which organizations we're gonna give to. So I'll top up her money to a round dollar amount, but then I also give to specific organizations that are meaningful to me.
And so we have that conversation around each November and she really gets a kick out of it. Last year was the first year where it gelled for her, and she had to choose between two organizations to give to, which was really cute to watch her, thought process. But then also having the conversations about.
What comes into the house, what goes out of the house. So now we're starting to have very real conversations about when we go to the store, she's like, mommy, I wanna buy, I wanna buy something. And I'm like, well, you can't decide when you get in the car to go to the store that you wanna buy something. You have to kind of know what it is that you want to buy before you get to the store.
She's like, I know I wanna buy candy or a toy. And I was just like, no, you have to have a specific idea. So she's really cute with that. So now you know, we're in the digital age [00:30:00] and you talked about swiping your card or snapping your phone or whatever, like things have really changed from my generation, your generation to now the eight year old's generation.
What are some, some tips that you can give to parents out there so that money is actually a thing in your kid's head? It's a tangible thing and that they don't just get swept up in. things appearing from Amazon, right? ?
Yeah, I think it is important, particularly for young kids to have tangible cash, cash tender.
Mm-hmm. You know, part of the transition from cash to cards to digital currency part of it is efficiency, It's just more efficient to pay that way. You can get more transactions done. You're not worried about, you know, losing a, paper dollar, you know, whatever.
it's just all computerized. It's all digitized. But there is stuff to be lost every time we get further and further away from something tangible. And from a personal finance standpoint in behavioral economics or consumer economics, they call it the pain of payment. Now, I'll give you an example.
if you think [00:31:00] about the last time you went to a gas station and paid cash, like walked into a gas station and handed money to a cashier your behavior changes based on the mode of payment that you make. So if you think about that last time that you walked into a gas station and paid the cashier, what you probably did more than was that you opened up your wallet and if there were bills in there, you sort of took them out slowly and you're kind of like, you know what?
Let me just put 20 on it. Uhhuh . But when we normally go and get cash, whether it's a debit card or a credit card, we just swipe and fill it up, right? And. The reason it's called pain of payment is because pain is not necessarily always bad. Pain can be your body's alert system.
And so Back to children. It's important for them to have that cash tender, to have the feeling of actually losing something.
Because the difference between you saying putting 20 on it versus swiping the card is that you didn't feel the, the money leave you because that didn't come physically out of your wallet. When you have to take money out of your wallet and hand it to [00:32:00] somebody, you feel a sense of loss, like there was a hundred dollars in there.
I gave him 20 and I know I only have $80 left. Like there's mm-hmm. , there's a tangible connection there to what I lost. When you're swiping or swiping a card it doesn't even tell you, how much you had in the account versus how much you have now after the transaction.
So now it's just gone. Like, you, you didn't even feel it. Nothing happened. So it's like having Novocain for your wallet, right? You didn't feel anything. So what I would say is for kids is to make sure that they have the sensation of being able to make those determinations and make those decisions about actually losing something.
So cash tender is actually very important for kids.
So Wilson before we wrap up, is there any questions I forgot that you think are really important in particular for Single Mother
by Choice?
Well, I think particularly for single mothers, the support network is probably gonna be the most important thing.
Daycares, unless the federal government is going to subsidize childcare, childcare is not gonna get cheaper anytime soon. Mm-hmm. . So I think about financial support as well as, you know, sort of the the social support [00:33:00] that you have. The support that you need in terms of your finances, whether that's a financial co coach, your financial advisor, whether, you know, , the accountant to look at taxes
cuz the costs aren't going down anytime soon.
Yeah. And so I will say one thing about the 5 29 is that I don't, I don't have an extra parent, but I do have a support village. And each time when birthdays come around Christmas come around, they're like, well, what should you get the kids? And, you know, for, select group of people, I say, contribute to the 5 29.
Because it's in place and they make it real easy for you to get those additional payments well, Wilson, thank you for coming to talk to me. I think, you know, I'm starting to get closer and closer to making those initial appointments, but you know, in my head I'm still like, I need to clean up the house before the housekeeper comes.
But I'm, I'm working, I'm working on myself. Where can my listeners find you and find out more about the Money Speakeasy.
Yeah, you can go to the money speakeasy.com the money speakeasy.com and find me [00:34:00] there. You can certainly set up appointments there. You have me on the social channels at at Money Speakeasy.
All right
