Episode Transcript
So there's a lot that happens under the hood of the Single Mother by Choice journey, and we talk openly about a lot of things like success stories, dating after becoming a Single, Mother by Choice. We talk about career pivots, financing joys. We talk about our. Fears and we're very vulnerable. And even still, there are some things that we just don't talk about enough. Like we don't talk about our losses enough and, you know, our losses stay with us.
We don't talk a lot about donor [00:01:00] eggs. We don't talk a lot about life after your SMC journey ends. And so today's guest, we both felt that it's important that we tell the. Full range of the Single Mother by Choice stories and that while it is important to tell the stories of the success, it's equally important to tell the stories about when your journey doesn't necessarily go as expected.
And when that journey doesn't go as expected, we have to make other choices and these other choices. Are equally just as affirmative, they're equally just as well thought out. And it's a period at the end of that sentence and not a dot, dot dot. And so it was a Sunday morning when I read your message and I was just like, you.
Were me at one point in my journey because I also was ready to write a similar message. And it touched me deeply because it was a message about you ending your Single [00:02:00] Mother by Choice journey and moving on with Life Child Free. And I wanted to both hug you and applaud you in that moment. Rahmah, welcome and please introduce,
Hi Aisha.
Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to do this and to share my story. My name is Rahmah Wims. I am 40 years old. I will actually be 41 in March. I am in the Washington DC area and I have transition. From pursuing a Single Mother by Choice lifestyle to now being child free after about a two year journey.
So just moving forward from pursuing motherhood and seeing what's next.
So, can you tell us a little bit about what led up to your decision
Sure. So kind of long story short when I was 37, [00:03:00] I was at this llama vineyard outside of Charlotte, North Carolina, in the mountains. I love the mountains. I do my best thinking in the mountains or on the beach. And I decided that if I was not in a very serious relationship, like we are on a confirmed path to marriage.
By the time I was 38. that I was going to become a mother on my own at the time, I thought that would look like adopting. One of my siblings is adopted. I have some friends who are adoptees. I've always thought I would adopt. So that's what I thought that would look like at the time. When I turned 38, which was March, 2020.
So, You know, things were , things were a little chaotic. But by then I'd already looked into, I'd already looked into the process of adopting and kind of seeing how expensive it was and how difficult it could be for a single woman. And [00:04:00] so I decided when the doctor's office opens back up, I'm going to get all my testing done, and I'm going to start this process.
and I figured, okay, this, this will be smooth sailing because I'm fairly young and I'm fairly healthy. Well,
Hold on, hold on. I'm gonna pause you there to kind of put everything in context. So for those of you who are listening, so March, 2020 was the, almost the exact time when the world shut down because of the pandemic the first time, right?
Yes. And
so, and to be specific, it was the day after my birthday, which was March 15th. So on March 16th. The whole, the world shut down world was shut down, , and
then . The other thing that I wanna point out is that conception was your plan B, your plan A was adoption? Yes, absolutely. Okay.
Yes.
Mm-hmm. . So plan B was conception. I have [00:05:00] actually never been super keen despite being one of four. I have never been super keen on, on being pregnant. I always wanted to be a mom, but I was very much indifferent to being pregnant, and I always felt like childbirth was probably going to really just be bad for my nerves.
But you know, it's how you get where you want to go. So I was willing to do it. . So I had all my testing done in like June or July of 2020. Everything was pretty much normal. My amh was like slightly low, but nothing drastic. I started taking all the recommended vitamins and supplements. I joined some Single Mother by Choice Facebook groups, including the Mocha SMC group that you were part of and started kind.
Scrolling through those groups, looking for more information. By end of summer 2020, I had selected my sperm donor and backup sperm donor and I'd had [00:06:00] my consultations with various fertility clinics. I ended up going with CNY fertility up in Syracuse. . And I had my first IUI in. October of 2020.
It was medicated. That didn't work. I think that was really shocking to me. Uhhuh, . Cause everyone, including the doctors, felt like it was a Sure. Made it seem like it would be a sure thing. Mm-hmm. . And so I was kind of shocked when it didn't work, but, I rallied and had my second I u I also medicated in like November, early December.
Mm-hmm. . That also didn't work, . Then of course comes the follow up call with the doctor and, you know, trying to get some answers as to why it didn't work and what we should do next. Ultimately, I decided I didn't wanna throw any more money away on Medicated IUI because even though they're not as expensive as IVF.
With the cost of sperm and everything, you need an entire vial, sperm.
It's [00:07:00] still like two to $3,000.
It's still, it was still around, I think $2,100. Mm-hmm. , including like the vials of sperm. Mm-hmm. . And so I was like, look, let's just, let's move on. They, of course, were. Very enthusiastic, very ready for me to move to IVF.
So I decided my 39th birthday present was going to be IVF. Okay? And so March, rolled around March, 2021, rolled around for my birthday, and that first week in April, . April, 2021 I did my egg retrieval and I did a fresh embryo transfer. Now I was told that I would probably get around 12 eggs and I could freeze half and fertilize half.
And I thought that's perfect cuz then if I meet the one, I'll have this little tiny batch of frozen eggs and, you know, We'll have some time to like be married if that happens, and then whatever. Mm-hmm. . [00:08:00] Well, I ended up with six mature eggs and only four of them fertilized. Okay. Okay. So that didn't go, I, I'm told those results are not terrible, especially at 39.
Mm-hmm. In the back of my mind, I kept thinking, no, I was supposed to have 10 to 12. Yeah, 10 to 12. Yes. . Note to all fertility doctors, please don't give those kind of estimates. Because some of us can't handle it. Yep, yep, yep. Three, two or three days after my egg retrieval, I ended up doing a fresh transfer.
I stayed in Syracuse for one more day and then I headed home back to the DC area. Of course that transfer didn't. Throughout the rest of 2021, I would go on to do two more transfers frozen transfers. So I did one, one more with one embryo, and then just to get it over with, I was like, let's do the remaining two embryos at once.
Like, I've already had two unsuccessful transfers. I've had two unsuccessful [00:09:00] IUIs . So I don't see a reason why we can't transfer both embryos. If I end up with twins, that's fine. Mm-hmm. two is better than zero. So it was like that was a risk I was willing to take. Mm-hmm. . And so I went up in October, 2021 and had my final embryo transfer and of.
Here we, here we are. That didn't work. And so the nurse at the clinic that was assigned to me, she was kind of like, okay, so you can just call us on cycle day one and we'll start the process for your egg or two. I was like, no, I, I won't be doing that. , I, I will not, I was tapped out financially, but also physically and emotionally.
Mm-hmm. , the back and forth between like DC and Syracuse was tough. The injections were tough. The amount of money I was spending was really tough. I spent a lot more than I thought I would. Mm-hmm. in total with IUI and IVF medication, [00:10:00] everything. I spent a little over 15 grand. Mm-hmm. and that was all out of pocket.
The insurance I had at that time didn't cover anything and even though C N Y estimates like what it will cost on their website mm-hmm. , that is actually much lower than what it ends up being. Right. And so I was working at a nonprofit at the time. Mm-hmm. . So I was doing my meager savings my credit cards, and then just like writing the checks when I got paid.
Rockwell, you are me, you are me. Like, just on paper, like, you know, I also did C N Y. . I also was a traveler patient. So monitoring here in the D M V area, flying up to Syracuse for my procedure and then trying to loop back and fly back and, you know, so I also, you know, did the went through, I didn't do I U I and I V F with them.
By the time I got to them, I was like, I'm doing donor egg, it's [00:11:00] like paying out of pocket like every month you're watching the cash register tick up, up, up, up, up. And then when you get down to those final embryos, it's like, go ahead and just.
We're gonna roll the dice and transfer me both. Yes. And like you, I started at 39 and hit the secondary infertility. And similar to you, I was told at one point I would have an I V F cycle that would give me 14 eggs, 14 mature eggs.
I ended. Five. I ended up with only one embryo that could be tested. And then when I talked to the nurse to express my disappointment, it was just like I was met with hostility. It was, well, you know, one is good, one is good. And I'm just like, excuse me, . Like, there are so many of those moments where it's just like, no, it is not like, yeah.
You know,
so I, I, I, that's, That's always the most interesting thing. That's been like the most interesting thing for me because I'm like, well, where's this? Where's this [00:12:00] attitude coming from? Like, this is my money, my body, yes. My experience. Mm-hmm. I have the right to ask questions. I have the right to be.
Disappointed and frustrated. Mm-hmm. Especially when you're basically telling me that this is a good and fine result and that, oh, maybe I should just try keto. I don't think keto is gonna help the situation
here. and I'll say the bad experience. I had a better experience at CNY. The bad experience is from a clinic I will
allowed to remain anonymous because the doctor was rushing in that morning and I was a first patient getting my retrieval. And so as I was going under, it's just like, did he get here yet? Did he get here yet? And then to find out that , I had less than what I expected. I'm like
were you rushing? Yeah, that's fair.
right? So it's just mm-hmm. , but, but I'm sorry I interrupted you. But I just wanted to, to point out there were so many similarities and we think [00:13:00] like 39 is like, 39 is okay, right. You know, to, yeah. To set the expectation for like, okay. But for listeners out there, 39 is just as.
Much. 40, right? 39 is the, it really is kind of like 40. .
And the amount of people who told me, like who still tell me, oh, you, you still have time. I know someone who had a big five bestie. , I'm not having a baby
at 45 . Right, right, right. And you know, and, and we don't know necessarily the circumstances
correct. And everyone's entitled to their privacy and okay, you know, babies at 45 do happen with a lot of help from science, a
lot of scientific intervention. And I. I wish there was a little more honesty about that, but I also understand that it's very personal, and everyone doesn't feel comfortable sharing.
Yeah. So that was like November, 2021. I told CNY. I [00:14:00] wasn't, going to try anymore. I wouldn't be calling them on cycle day one. They wished me well. And you know, then finance followed up and was like, here's your remaining balance,
So super brutal. Fast forward to May of 2022. I have taken a break for months. I have told my family and friends that, the journey was unsuccessful. I am not trying anymore, so May, 2022, I get a job. My current job at a tech company, And so, of course, you know now I'm no longer in the nonprofit sector.
I'm making a little more money. And also my tech company, like most tech companies, has infertility coverage. Nice. So,
Sign. Maybe I should try again. Mm-hmm. . So I, I'm 40 now at this point, and so I do another round of consultations and I do it all locally here in the DC area. And I go to a clinic that, a girlfriend of mine who I've met on my SMC journey recommended [00:15:00] and we have a consultation. My amh has like drastically plummeted.
The doctor said she wasn't sure, using my own eggs would be the fastest route to motherhood. Mm-hmm. , I'm like, okay, well I don't wanna spend another like year, two years doing this.
Right. What are my odds? And she said, your first cycle of IVF probably won't work. We probably won't get the results you want, but by the time you get to your second or third, You'll, I thinking to myself, , you think I'm made of money? Uhhuh, third cycle of ivf, Uhhuh.
I've already done ivf. Are you, are you insane? Like, I did not wanna put my body through multiple. egg retrievals and embryo transfers on the chance. Mm-hmm. . And so she said, well, I know you mentioned before being comfortable with adoption, so if genetics are not a huge concern for you, have you considered donor eggs?
[00:16:00] Mm-hmm. . And I said, well, I hadn't really thought about them. I'm not necessarily opposed to it. . I said, but I, I do know or have heard that it can be kind of difficult to find a black egg donor. I said, and then, you know, I would want someone who's tall, because I'm tall, my family's tall.
Mm-hmm. and, you know, start laying out the requirements. And she basically looked at me like, honey beggars campus.
And she was like, well, I think it would be best not to get too particular is how she did it. And I'm like, fair enough. And so then she suggested using donor embryos and then I don't have to worry about finding another sperm donor and then also finding an egg donor and mm-hmm. hoping that it all works out.
There are, you know, they had some donor embryos at their clinic and. This was in like late June of 2022, and they added me into their little donor portal, and there were. , two sets of fully [00:17:00] black donor embryos. Mm-hmm. . And so one was from a couple, they'd already had three children, including a set of twins, and they had two embryos left.
Mm-hmm. . And then the other couple, I think they'd only had one child and they had like seven or eight embryos left. Mm-hmm. . And so I thought to myself, well, I know that now that we're on donor embryos, I know that this is the end of the road for me if this does not work out. I am completely unwilling to go any further than this.
If even donor embryos won't implant into my uterus mm-hmm. , then that is clearly a sign that we have come to the end of the road here. Right. And so, I said I feel like it would be selfish to take the, the seven embryo pack when I only need like, maybe two. Mm-hmm. . So I went with like the set of two donor embryos.
We started the process for the embryo transfer. I had that in and goodness, when did I have that? I think it [00:18:00] was maybe September. Mm-hmm. of 2022. and then it didn't work and I was confident and the doctor was confident and the staff was confident that transferring those two very healthy donor embryos that those same genes had already resulted in three other children.
Mm-hmm. . So we were pretty confident it would work. And I will admit I was, I was pretty crushed when it didn't. Yeah. And then I, you know, I was like, okay, it's me. I'm, I'm the problem. It's definitely, it's definitely me. And I, I was really, I was really devastated by that because that was kind of like, I knew that was the end.
And even in my devastation, I felt peace because I was like, okay, now I can stop trying to figure this out. Now I can stop putting my body through this. And now I know that like [00:19:00] I'm just going to be living a completely different kind of lifestyle than I
initially thought I would. Right. So thank you for sharing that story.
Where were you, in your head space when you wrote the post that Sunday morning?
So by the time I wrote the post in our Facebook group I was sad, but I had a ton of peace about it. And I just felt like everyone in the group had been so supportive over like the last two years while I'd been on my journey.
I didn't want to just because there were Facebook groups where I just like literally clicked the leave button. Uhhuh just left. Yeah. But I felt like everyone in the Mocha SMC group had been so incredibly supportive and I've made genuine friends and connections in that group. I didn't just wanna leave, I wanted to give.
everyone an update and say, Hey, this is where I am and this is what's next. Mm-hmm. . And just [00:20:00] say like a proper goodbye. I. , like to close things out properly and I just felt like in this instance that that was something that needed to be done. And I also thought it might be helpful for me to tell people because my family didn't know that I had done like the donor embryo cycle, right.
Because I figured, oh, if it works, I'll just do like a fun pregnancy announcement. Be like surprise. And then if it didn't, then I wouldn't have to
there's a lot that goes into it. When you get to this point in the journey, it's just like you, you start thinking about, you know, life after you start thinking about, okay, mentally you have to prepare yourself for continuing life because life will go on, right?
And you're going to be happy, you know, you. , you seek your closure, right? And so that's one of the things that I'm big on as well. Like once I've had the space to emotionally process where I am, , and I'm on firm ground, then I can kind of share with people. Because at some point you do go silent,
because [00:21:00] you're dealing with your emotions, you're dealing with where you are, and that's a lot. And then it's just like, okay, but there were, you know, people who supported you. And it's just like, okay, now how do I do this in a way? Honor is my journey, but puts a firm pin in that I am done.
This is the end of the conversation, right? Because people, they mean well, and they will just keep offering you up options. Like, yes, just do this, just do that. And it's just like, I know you mean well. I don't wanna have to manage your emotions too. Correct. And so I'm taking, I'm taking my closure and so I appreciate the way that you took your closure, but also that you gracefully shut down some of the well-meaning people with the different options and so,
That's kind of what I wanted to talk about, because I think that that's important too, to understand that there are dos and don'ts, right? Don't center your story in my story. Yes. Like, just kind of take my message and if you have well wishes for me, give me those well [00:22:00] wishes, but keep everything else to yourself.
Right. And it's just like, you know, so there is some forethought that goes into, okay, I'm about to make this post, right. This is, yeah, this is it for me and here is what I'm not going to do. Right. And so you did get the, have you considered, so let's, go through that just a little bit.
Have you considered
and ? I did get the, have you considered? Both in my. In response to my post, but also in my dms, Uhhuh Uhhuh . Which I definitely didn't appreciate. And I know people mean well, Uhhuh , but I did not make the decision to stop trying on a whim. I spent two years and over 15 grand.
Trying to get pregnant. I also pursued adoption. I met with both private adoption agencies, and for a brief period I considered adopting from foster care. So I met with the public agencies. I have looked into all of the options and by the time. [00:23:00] I made that post in, I think, October, maybe November, 2022.
Mm-hmm. , I had considered all possible avenues and I had also considered what living life as a child-free person and just continuing to be. As the coffee mug from my nieces says the world's greatest Auntie Uhhuh like just living the auntie life and not the mom life, I had considered all of that.
I'd thought through all of that, I prayed over all of that. Yes, yes. So by the time I made that post, I was confident in my decision. And I think that people mean well, but it is very invalidating to come to someone who's saying that, oh, I've thought this through and here is where I am. This is the end of my journey.
To then say, well, have you considered adoption? And then when they're like, oh, well that's not right for me, then you kind of wanna keep pushing the point. Right. I think that's when it starts leaning towards intrusive and [00:24:00] even a little disrespectful. Right, right. Like, please respect my opinion. And I. , I think you have to tread very lightly, offering up alternatives, right?
Because nine times out of 10 people have already considered those alternatives and rejected them for a reason. Mm-hmm. , any woman who's choosing this kind of journey for herself, the SMC journey, like that's not for the faint of heart. No one just on a whim wakes up and says, you know what? I'm gonna have a baby on my own.
Like there are, yeah. A lot of logistics that go into it. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. a lot of steps. Yeah. There are a lot of steps before you even get to actually trying to conceive mm-hmm. or actually trying to adopt. And I think we should. Do our fellow sisters in the journey, the respect of just, you know, validating their choice and wishing them well?
Yes, yes. And I can attest to that. My journey was [00:25:00] almost three years, and I also considered everything by the time I got to considering adoption, I talked to people, right? So you're having like these week long conversations, coordinating times to talk to friends and, doing your research, coming back to them with questions like detailed questions.
And similar to the decision to become a Single Mother by Choice. By the time you announce it to people, you have been on this journey in your mind for four, six months, a year, two years, three years. Right. Cuz you go through the thinking phase as well, and by the time you announce it to people, it's well thought out, right?
Correct. And the same thing with ending your journey it's well thought out at that point. And it's just like, so now you're just adding mud to the water. Like I made my decision. I don't wanna backtrack on things that I've already. Explored and set aside.
Right. Exactly. So this is, this is now my path. So let's talk a little bit about the dos and don'ts of . If somebody says, this is the end, this is it for me, don't offer up alternatives. [00:26:00] Right. By the time someone decides to go with a definitive, affirmative choice, they've already thought everything through, right?
Yeah, for sure. Don't share your own story unless asked, and keep it
brief please, because I did not need someone in my dms telling me that it took multiple rounds of donor. before they had their child, but they're just so glad they didn't give up. And, you know, yes, they're still paying down the debt, but you know, they wouldn't trade their child for anything.
Okay, thank you. Yes.
Right, right, right. Oh gosh, I'm, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Let's see. Do be there for the person. Do reread the posts and a address, the things that they ask. And so sometimes it's just like, you know, respect my peace. Yeah. Or sometimes, reach out to me if you want to, , I'm, I'm leaving here, but you know, I still exist in the world.
You know, if you want my email address, you know, [00:27:00] reach out to me. Yeah. So, so, so do honor their wishes. Anything else that you wanna add to that? Dos and don'ts.
All I will, I'll say like, stay comfortable if you wa if you feel like you've built a relationship with that person, stay in contact like Don. Feel compelled to shy away because they're no longer a mother or like planning to become a mother. Mm-hmm. , like, you can still stay connected, you can still be friends and it doesn't have to be awkward.
Mm-hmm. I was in a local like D M V area. SMC Facebook group. A bunch of us were trying to conceive around the same time. So we started like a little separate group chat. Mm-hmm. . The majority of those women are mothers now. I'm still in the group chat. Mm-hmm. , I would've been very sad to have been booted out of the group chat.
Yes, yes, yes. You know, we're all friends. Like obviously my life is on a completely different. , they're posting baby pictures. I am posting pictures from the [00:28:00] beach. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . It's, it's a completely different lifestyle. Mm-hmm. Enjoy being connected and knowing what's going on. And the women who are still trying to get pregnant,
I still enjoy hearing how their journey is going and cheering them along. Mm-hmm. . So don't assume that just because a person is ending their motherhood journey, they no longer wish to be involved in yours,
or no longer wish to be. Existing. Right. Because Right. My identity as a person doesn't begin and end with motherhood.
Right. I still look, I'm still reaching out to you because we're still doing Celebrez en Rose. Exactly. We're still, we're gonna be doing a pole dancing class, so
still be friends, like just. You're a mom and I'm not going to become one. Doesn't mean we can't be friends. Life still goes on. And so, yes, I encourage people to remember that like, life does go on and sometimes you're on different paths, but that doesn't mean that those paths can't [00:29:00] converge.
And you guys still can't be friends, right?
Right. Okay, so what's next? What's next for
Rahmah? What's next? I've been working on fully embracing just what it means to be child free. I will say early in the journey, when I first kind of started realizing that I was gonna be on this path and I was like, okay, there's SMC Facebook groups.
Let's see if there's child free Facebook groups. If anyone else is on that journey, be very careful. It's a wild ride , but there's one group that's been like really helpful to me. I've started making some friends in that group. They're all about embracing life, so what's next for me is traveling a bit more.
Attempting to get back into the dating scene. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. , we'll see how that goes. I put serious dating on hold while I was trying to, while I was trying to get pregnant, And so I'm gonna try and jump back into that. Traveling a bit more and I'm probably going to relocate out of the DC [00:30:00] area.
Mm-hmm. Somewhere slower paced, most likely a beach town. Mm-hmm. . I've always wanted to live at the beach and Okay. Cuz I've always, in my mind, been on like the mommy track, Uhhuh, . I've always considered like, oh, well I don't wanna be too far away from my family and we, I wanna be somewhere where there are good schools.
Mm-hmm. and kind of like all of those things. Mm-hmm. and now that. Do not have to worry about any of that anymore. Mm-hmm. I think I'm going to embrace my coastal grand aesthetic. Uhhuh , Uhhuh , Uhhuh , and live at the, and live at the beach. So I'll probably relocate this summer. Mm-hmm. . So that's pretty exciting.
And then I have a trip to Mexico coming up. Mm-hmm. . Next month I'm taking my youngest niece, she's turning 18 at the end of January. Mm-hmm. . So in February. We're going on like a little antiquing road trip. Nice. We both love antiquing, so we're going on like a [00:31:00] little antiquing road trip.
I take her somewhere every year for her birthday. We often go to New York, but we're gonna mix it up for her. Mm-hmm. , her final childhood birthday as she says.
Aw, nice. Nice. I wanted to thank you. Thank you for coming to talk to me. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for being a part of our community. And we are going to be doing lunch. And like I told you, I've got a summer event that I am going to be inviting you to and we're going to be doing pool dancing.
Yes. I'm looking forward to it. Yes, yes. And thank you for having me. It was so great to come on here and share and just
catch up. Yes, yes. All right. So is there anything that, you wanna recommend, any books, any Facebook groups? Yeah. What do we wanna leave everybody with? So
if you are considering being child free after infertility, I would strongly recommend.[00:32:00]
The Facebook group Childless, not by Choice, embracing Life. Mm-hmm. The women in there are very positive and everyone has come to the group through like unsuccessful attempts at either adopting or conceiving mm-hmm. and they've kind of made peace with it.
Mm-hmm. . And so it's a lot of just women coming together, sharing their experiences, but. Sharing the adventures that they're on and the fun that they're having. Mm-hmm. , highly recommend that group. I will say before trying to get pregnant, I was never like a Facebook group kind of person. Mm-hmm. . But they're pretty awesome. And then there's also a book that was really helpful called Living the Life Unexpected, and it's by Jody Day.
Okay. And it's about kind of picking up the pieces and moving on with your life after infertility, and I definitely enjoyed that book. I, I would highly recommend that for anyone on this journey. [00:33:00] All right. And then mm-hmm. The advice I would leave anyone with is, , this is your life, and it's okay at any point to change your mind.
You don't owe anyone an explanation, so if one day you just wake up and decide you're done, it's okay to be done. Yes, that's a valid choice. You're not a bad person for walking away from motherhood. It doesn't mean that you never wanted it. It's okay to know that it's time to move on and just move on.
Well, thank you Rahmah, and thanks Aisha. We'll be in touch.
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