S1E12 - On Sisterhood Among SMCs w/ Shivonne and Kim

Episode 12 April 12, 2023 00:30:32
S1E12 - On Sisterhood Among SMCs w/ Shivonne and Kim
Start to Finish Motherhood with Aisha
S1E12 - On Sisterhood Among SMCs w/ Shivonne and Kim

Apr 12 2023 | 00:30:32

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Hosted By

Aisha Jenkins

Show Notes

In this podcast episode, Aisha chats with Kim and Shivonne, about sisterhood among Single Mothers by Choice. Kim explains that with black sisterhood, in particular, there are certain things that black women just get, and she can be herself without feeling drained. Shivonne agrees that black sisterhood offers a level of comfort and support that is unique and necessary. Both women highlight the importance of finding and maintaining these relationships and share how  their friendship developed. Overall, the conversation celebrates the beauty and importance of black sisterhood among Single Mothers by Choice and the support and love that black women give to one another.

Whole Body Pregnancy: https://linktr.ee/WholeBodyPregnancy

Ancient Song: https://www.instagram.com/ancientsong

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Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] I'm here today with two guests, Kim and Shivonne, who are each other's people, and we'll explain what that means in a little bit. I've been dying to have this conversation. To reflect on where we are, as a threesome, where y'all are as a twosome, so welcome I think we've known each other for a better part of five years, and most of it has been on the virtual platform, and it's uncanny how we become so involved and invested in each other's lives and each other's [00:01:00] journeys that when we finally got the time to meet in person, let's see, I met Kim probably two years ago. And then I met Shivonne actually in person a few months ago. But you couldn't tell us that we didn't know each other. Like for real, for real. It's always interesting when you meet people face-to-face because then you've got that physical presence and I'm like, oh, Shivonne is a thought. And I'm like, Ooh, Kim, face all done. And I was like, but Shivonne was shorter than I thought. She talked like a tall woman. But anyway, that's my my take. So before we get into the conversation, not a, I wish to live that life used to. Every time I hear that part of. Beyonce song. The Cup challenge. Every time when I hear it it's like at the end of the song and I'd be like, Ooh, I'm channeling Shivonne every time. But it's funny cuz a lot of people think that, and it's so, like, my life is so not, but I think it's my personality. No, you gotta play the church girl [00:02:00] one where she's like dropping like a daddy, dropping like a . Yes. Yes. And I'm just like that Shivonne is a vibe and I love it. Okay, so why don't we start from the beginning. Tell us a little bit about your Single, Mother by Choice journey, how you arrived at the place that you are, and then we'll go ahead and get into our conversation for today. All right. I am Kim. I recently turned 36 and I have an almost three and a half year old and a seven month old, two girls. I remember almost 10 years ago I had a surgery and I was discussing with my doctor, whether or not I would have the ability to have kids after it, things like that. And I kind of decided at that point all right, We'll see for like a year or so after the surgery if I meet anyone. If not, I'm gonna have a kid on my own once I'm in my thirties. I kind of had that set in my head for a while. Around 28, I decided I wasn't gonna date anymore to meet someone to have a kid with. I was just gonna enjoy some adventures in my life and then have kids. I kept up with my doctor, kept up with how my uterus was doing, and when I turned 30 I [00:03:00] did some planning and at 31 I did some traveling so that some trips that I couldn't do once I had kids, . And then I went ahead and I started trying to get pregnant. It took me a bit of time to get pregnant with both girls. I ended up doing IVF for both of them. They both have the same donor I thought I would have, two back to back and that wasn't quite how things went. Mm-hmm. For my first, you know, I had premature baby. I have a lot of hospital time, a lot of doctor time. For my second, I also had just a slightly premature baby. So , it made me grateful that I went ahead and did things like I wanted to, early thirties went for it. Cuz I just think about how much harder it might have been if I had waited. My uterus wasn't really cooperating and these are going to be my two for life unless I adopt, because I chose to have a cesarean hysterectomy after my second. And yeah, I, there's just never been a day where I wish I had done it any other way than going ahead and doing it myself. They're 100% my girls. And and I just feel like it was meant to go this way. Mm-hmm. , I feel like it was meant to be. I very much remember being very comfortable as I started the process [00:04:00] with having them on my own. And each time I, like when I held each one for the first time, it was like, okay, you're my family. Like you were, you are my family. So. Right. That was me. Nice, nice. Well thank you. You know, it's funny, we plan and God laughs, it never goes as planned. . Hi Shivonne. Hi. So I'm Shivonne and my, journey was a little bit different. I had been married, thought I was going to have children, with a partner. And that was not the plan. So, fast forward after the divorce. I dated for a while, didn't find love or anybody who, to me I would match with to have children. I was somebody who had endometriosis which I didn't know until they went in there did exploratory surgery. I had a huge fibroid. So at 33 when I found all of this out, I actually ended up having surgery to preserve my fertility, where at that time I had stage four endometriosis. They got rid of as much as they [00:05:00] could. They removed the fibroid. So at that point it was kind of like, well, no matter what you do, you're gonna have to have I V F still not thinking SMC. Living my life, doing my thing, traveling getting degree, all of that stuff. And then at 36, that's when I really started thinking about it. Seriously. And so I started exploring. I found a reproductive endocrinologist and had talked to them about it. And I remember it was right before my 39th birthday. And I went into the doctor's office and I had said, you know, we're gonna freeze my eggs. And my doctor was like, okay, hold on. And my doctor was like, okay, you know, let's have a very real conversation. And she pretty much had the conversation like, I've can bring your eggs, but we don't know , what that's gonna look like for you. How many eggs we're gonna get, what's gonna be healthy, what's gonna survive when they're thaw. And so she had the conversation of just go ahead and, you know, make embryos, have your baby. Like what's the problem? Here I am sitting at 38, almost 39 years old, and I didn't realize I was, you know, even going to be like going [00:06:00] on this journey. But after that conversation, I began doing research. And my research pretty much took off very quickly because for me, I always wanted to be a mama. I felt like I was put here to be a mama. And so when I thought about it, I said, you know what? I don't wanna wake up one day and be menopausal and never have tried to create my family that I always dreamed of. And so that thought pained me so much that it actually jumpstarted. Like, I'm not gonna sit here and wait in the what ifs, I'm gonna do my thing. So went, looked at Sperm donors. And basically, pretty much I traveled to Africa. I did like three trips. I traveled to Africa. I think I did my cruise. I had never been on a cruise before. Went to Florida, you know, just little trips. And then came home, got started. Luckily for me Maddox took the first try. So that was, I mean, I had to have surgery kind of like a cleanup, so to speak, D n c Polypectomy. So I did that. I went through I V F, I took 30 days without hormones and then boomed. And that next [00:07:00] cycle, my doctor was like, you know, let's, let's go ahead and try it. And he was actually my only embryo at that time. And it worked. He's stuck. He's here now. He's two and a half. He is everything. And I remember I, that night that I was holding him, I looked at him and said, I could so do this again. And I had like, no plans on, like, he was gonna be like one and done. And I looked at him and I said, I could so do this again. So, you know, we fast forward two and a half years later. , I have tried IVF again. It has taken me a whole year, have gone through the IVF process yet again. Not as easy the second time. And so it's yet to be determined. I'll keep you guys posted. Fingers crossed, it's so interesting how windy our journeys are. Right? Like Kim said, when she went for a second, you know, she didn't expect it to take that long. And I think that that's where we, we all kind of get to, you know, when you go for that second, it's just like, life just happens, right? You're juggling it all. You are trying to figure out a, a perfect time in [00:08:00] your career and then you are still juggling all of the appointments, right? The appointments don't stop. You still have the day three blood work. You still have the seven 30 in the morning appointments, right? But you are working around daycare schedules and, , nighttime schedules and. You have to give I v F shots, , did the kids go to bed? , and it's just a lot. And I think, , you have to be so focused and just shut everything else down in order to, to even pursue that second one and not drop the ball. So we're gonna keep our fingers crossed for you, Shivonne, and we'll check back in with you. Okay? Let's talk a little bit about black sisterhood. There's something so special about. The support and the nurturing and the love that you get from black women toward black women. Right? I saw this mahogany meme that said my love language is sisterhood. It is so true. Like, I root for all things, , black, I'm rooting for everybody black, as Issa [00:09:00] Rae said. And it's just like, so whenever I see another black woman winning or succeeding or, you know, somehow struggling on the journey, I'm like, I wanna run up and walk beside you. So what does black sisterhood mean to you? As a, a woman and as a Single? Mother by Choice, It's funny, I actually have that t-shirt. I'm rooting for everyone. Black . I've had it for a while. So for me, you know, it's interesting. I always Shivonne and I talk frequently and I grew up in Long Island. I grew up in one of the few towns of Long Island that's, dominantly brown people. When I was younger it was mostly black. Now it's mostly Latino. So I was always around people from everywhere. But, you know, growing up in Long Island, I mostly worked with white people my entire life. You know, at the schools I went to for college, I went, I started school in Long Island, then I went to upstate New York. Even though there were like black people, you're still amongst a lot of white people. So I have a ton of white friends, a ton of Latino friends. And I always told your mom, I'm like, you know, I am one of those people that. Can kind of like go wherever, [00:10:00] hang out with whoever, as long as, you know, I'm gonna talk about what I wanna talk about. And one thing I'm gonna talk about all the time is black people. And one thing I'm gonna, you know, talk about is stuff that is being done to black people. So if you're gonna be uncomfortable, you just can't be friends with me. But for me it's one of the biggest things I would say with black sisterhood specifically, is there's just, there are just some things that don't need to be, you don't need to enlighten them on in the way that you have to enlighten others. For example, when I was, you know, I moved a few months ago and while looking at places and areas to go to, you know, you have all these people that are trying to help and be well-meaning suggesting towns and cities that are great to go to. And the first thing I looked at was the demographics. I'm like, what are the racial demographics of these areas? And people are like, oh, I know the market's hard, but you don't know how hard it is for black people who wanna live. Near black people. And that was something that I remember, you know, talking to Shivonne about. Cause I was like, it's really hard cuz so many towns get automatically cut because they don't have, I don't wanna live somewhere that has like less than 10% black people that's like 2% [00:11:00] black and 98% white. Like, that's not what I'm looking for. And I just remember so many people that weren't black were like, oh, I didn't think about that. Because it wasn't something they had to consider when they were looking for places to live. They were like, oh, are you looking at school districts? Are you looking at this that, and I'm like, first I'm looking to have my kids not have me be the only brown person that they see and my family be the only brown people that they see in life. So like that's something where you bring it up when you're talking to your girlfriend, who's. And she's like, oh yeah, girl, that town is, you know, yeah. Little diversity and like, those are the things that , you don't realize over time. But when you're constantly in like enlightenment and teaching mode for others, it's draining even when it's not intentional and you just don't have that. So like with, , Shivonne or like my group chat that's, you know, some of my black homegirls and stuff like that. Like, there are just certain things that you don't have to explain the background of. You can sense certain memes without giving like the historical context of why it's funny. And I need that. Like I need my [00:12:00] brain to be able to rest and be quiet sometimes because I have so much happening all the time. Kids only add to the noise, honestly. Right, right. There's, there's like, I wanna be able to talk , a av a a. Right. And it'd be like, you know, and you say it, I'm, yes. Yeah. Like, and you don't wanna have to explain every background. So that's what black sisterhood really represents for me. And even just beyond things that black people get, there's certain things that like black women get because like, yes, we are just, we have a compounded struggle that we're going through. And there are things that, like jokes about things that the black community overall won't get, because some of them are based in not only race, but misogyny and sexism. So it's like, you know mm-hmm. , black sisterhood allows you that time to like breathe and quiet your brain and just like, unload and talk without needing to like, Be a glossary or like encyclopedia for someone, you could just talk and like they get it. So like that's something I always appreciate in my life and foster those [00:13:00] relationships because as much as I love my friends that aren't black and they're good people, they don't always get it. They just don't always get it, so, right, right. Yes, yes. And similar to, to you, Kim, I, you know, also grew up in New York and I went to a high school that was really diverse. So I've always been in diverse environments and yet, and still you managed to find your people. Right? I managed to find, you know, my black friends on the track team that was about 75% not black, right? So 25% black. So, you know, while you do love and appreciate the rest of the teammates, you, there's a, a special affinity for, you know, your black teammates because you understand some microaggressions that you might experience when you go to the track meets, or, you know, when you're riding the subways to get to the track meets. And the track meets. Were sometimes in the outer boroughs, , upper Manhattan, and like Yeah, upper parts of the Bronx, like Cunningham Park and things like that. So yeah, so definitely. Hey Shivonne, what are your thoughts on black sisterhood? So my thoughts on [00:14:00] black sisterhood, like you guys, I grew up in New York as well, so Interesting cuz it's so funny. I think that people who grew up in New York have a different thought process than people who grew up in other places. So it was extremely diverse. Now, I'll say, between growing up in Queens and growing up in Long Island diversity looked different. Growing up in Queens, everybody was, it was the melting pot, everybody was there, long Island. It just depends on what area you lived in. And so for me,, , black sisterhood is everything. Now, as a fair-skinned sister, I have always dealt with, at least when I was younger, not being black enough and not being white enough. I've always felt black. I've always believed in the support, the pouring into the being there, the, you know, ride till you die to take in secrets to your great, like all of that stuff. And then just being able to have a conversation and feel seen. And feel heard, and like Kim was saying, not having to explain anything because you guys are on the same page, like culturally, like [00:15:00] we know each other. So as an adult I definitely embrace my sisterhood with my black sisters, which of course my, my relationships look different now, but there's a mutual respect, there's an understanding, there's an acceptance you know, for one another. And I've even gotten to the point in my close relationships, like there's an openness and more of a vulnerability that I'm able to have now as an adult that might have been a little bit different you know, coming up as children, but it's very important to me. I do love what Kim said, that, it's not just a black thing. Black women have a particularly different experience navigating the world than black men, nothing away from them. They have their own unique experience as well. But oftentimes we do feel alone in the fight alone, in the struggle. And that we're expected. To hold it down. We're expected to nurture regardless of what else is going on. And look, I put that kick [00:16:00] down. I put that kick down and it's stand out and yeah, like that narrative of the strong black, no thank you. Nope. Mm-hmm. . And you won't hear that in my house. You won't hear me say black excellence in my house. You won't hear me. No, we, I, I'm regular black. I'm regular black people. I get tired. I have bad days. I'm just regular, okay. , so, I like you said, we could have this conversation, but I do want to get into the importance of finding your people and finding community as Single Mother by Choice. So tell me how you and Kim met. Well, it's funny because actually what I went back to, our conversation in mm-hmm. Our chat on Facebook. It was definitely full of 21, I remember because I was April 1st. April 1st, 2021. That was the first Oh, so messaged you and I think it was after like one of our Wednesday night wine Wednesdays at the time. Mm-hmm. . Yes. [00:17:00] Oh yeah. And I was, okay. Oh, I was telling you how I always enjoy your commentary on our ladies nights and we were talking about how far away I lived from you and da da da da. So yeah, it was, oh my God. We're coming up on our front of earth. The ring two years. Yeah. We actually met through the Facebook group and mm-hmm. You know, the wine Wednesdays started and we would both attend them fairly frequently, and then eventually, you know, Chevron reached out to me. I do remember we started talking a lot more frequently last fall because I do remember that we spoke. Pretty much regularly. Yeah. Like I think we were talking with like every day, like we were talking pretty regularly. And then at some point Shivonne started calling me Saturday mornings and we had our Saturday morning phone calls. Every Saturday. We would just mm-hmm. catch up on the phone, talk about whatever, like both of us had toddlers just in the background going crazy. . Mm-hmm. . And we, yeah, and our friendship just blossomed. I mean, we could talk about anything, school, work, [00:18:00] children, what we doing for the weekend, our goals for the future, like it, we were just, and we'd be on the phone for like hours, like, and it would start at like seven, eight o'clock in the morning. I'd be like, girl, you up, like, and we'd have breakfast together and everything. Uhhuh, . And then one of us, either Kim would have to do something or I'm always talking about, well, we about to take a nap. . Mm-hmm. . I'm the most napping. This mom. Okay. . I love it. I love it. You know, there's something to be said about finding your people on this SMC journey, right? Because it's such, it's such a different kind of lifestyle. It's such a different space. Like it is, it can be intense at times. And so you need that person who gets it, who you can just laugh with, who you can call at six o'clock in the morning, seven o'clock in the morning because your kids are up and it's just like, . I just need somebody to talk to. Like I know I will sometimes call. Now my, my relationship with both of you are just a little bit different. Like I call Shivonne, I text Kim, which is interesting, but I also [00:19:00] think because Kim has a partner, it's a little bit different cuz I don't wanna, I don't wanna be like, is it okay for me to call? Right. But, but Shivonne Shivonne you not allowed to get a man. So I need both, I need both modes of, I need both modes of, it's worried. Shavon will you, I I operate as somebody xyz. She's like, did you just like leave your partner at home? Absolutely. . Wait, but Kim, when I c when I know that you, you, you are Sam's partner, I will call you. I think that there was one time in particular, your boyfriend was out of town, and I was like, okay, good. I can call now. But for a while there, I, I didn't realize I had your number in my phone because I would reach out to you through Facebook chat, and now you can call people through Facebook. I was like, why do you even need like a phone number, like, I got access to all kinds of people, but, you know, but it is, it is definitely interesting. Like I do have my person who I will reach out to at random hours and she'll respond like at five 30 in the morning. I was like, and I just recently found out what she does at five 30 in the morning. Like she, she goes to [00:20:00] kickboxing, she's like, that's why, you know, I text you. And I was just like, oh, now that, now it all makes sense. But, you know, but it is important to find your people , we create so many opportunities, whether it's through the Facebook group or just through, I know somebody who lives in New York on Long Island as well. And I think y'all might get along, you know, I think it makes a journey easier, you know, to, to some sense. And what's interesting is I actually, so I had actually never heard the term SMC when I had my daughter. So I think that Meridian was like older than a year when I joined the group I actually was in a lot of I V F and I u I groups and trying to conceive groups and then eventually, One of those mentioned an SMC space. Mm-hmm. . And then in that SMC space there was another black woman that reached out to me and was like, do you know there's an SMC space for like black women? Black? And and that's how I ended up in the group. So I had already had my kid, I think I was already in, I was already in the process of trying for a second kid. Mm-hmm. . So for me it wasn't really like looking for [00:21:00] support getting like myself to the point of going through the journey or like, like I'd always just been very comfortable mm-hmm. with that. But like, it's just different being able to talk to someone else who goes, like, I was joking with Shivonne the other day that like five years from now we're gonna be cracking up. That like, we've spoken entirely different language for years, talking about like meds and procedures and this and that. Mm-hmm. . And you were like, wow, I have like a whole glossary of terms. that nobody else in my life knows what they know. Yes, yes. And like, we can call each other and be like, Hey, my doctor said I need to take X, Y, z. Like, what do you think about that? Because we, we've both, you know, had to take it. Or like, we've both had procedures and talking about like, healing from a procedure with a toddler because it's different and you know. Mm-hmm. , my partner and I only recently moved in together, so like, I went through both of my processes by myself and I was home with the kids by myself. And it was like, okay, like when you're alone and you just had surgery and you have a toddler, like ha or like you mentioned with, okay, it's time to do [00:22:00] my shots. Like, and there were times that my toddler wasn't going to sleep, so I was like holding her in one hand, giving myself an injection. Yeah. Cause those little people will come in and they will just bump into you and it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, no, no. We can't, we can't be doing that. Like, I can't drop, I can't drop this vial. Like if I drop this vial, that's your. Behind. Right. And it's, it's like very refreshing and very like, just very dear to my heart, being able to build my friendship with Kim and, and have her be on this journey with me because I was so used to people going through these big things in life and then falling off. And I think I even remember saying to Kim, oh, you know, once you have the baby, her second Uhhuh, I was like, we're not gonna be able to have our Saturdays and this and that and we still have our Saturdays or our Tuesdays or this or that. It may not be every Saturday, but like Kim hasn't stopped picking up that phone or shoot me a text saying, I'll call you back later, or whatever have you. And so the relationship has definitely continued and I'm glad [00:23:00] because usually women go through big things in their life and like, you know, life changes. Yeah. And I'm looking like, well, I still need my people like. What you mean life changes? Like Yeah, it's changing. I thought we were changing together. I didn't realize when I was out in gallivanting pre-kids that I was the oldest in my close girlfriend group. And then when I got to the point where I started talking about I wanted to try for kids, that's when it was just like, well, how old are you? How old are you? Like, been rolling with these girls for like years and never really like, I'm feeling like I'm y'all, y'all my peers. Oh girl. I'm like, I'm the old, old lady in the group. So, you know, I was the first to go ahead and have my kids, and you know, as secure as I am, I do realize I don't always know everything. I don't see everything, and I don't always have control over what's going on in other people's lives. So I was worried that I would lose friendships, right. That we would lose touch, we would grow apart. Now, similar to what you said, it's just like it, the relationship evolves differently. Like it's not like we're going out to happy [00:24:00] hour, like every Friday we're getting together for brunch, you know, on Saturdays, because I do have the kids now, but when we get together like four times a year now, right. But we do Zoom calls and we do a group chat. , it feels as if we've never left and that we've just gained two additional people. And I think that it makes you appreciate the friendship even more. And you take, you, you handle it differently, right? You don't take it for granted because it was something you weren't sure was going to be there. Now, I, I know my girlfriends are solid, but life happens, right? And there are times I can't pick up the phone. There are times like vacations and trips that I just can't go on because I've got the kids. And so, so yeah, there's all of that. Yeah, it's definitely hard. Like I have an amazing group of friends and like, they haven't disappeared. They're great with my kids, but I was definitely. . I've always had friendships where like we can see each other all the time or we can see each other like once a month and things are just as great. Mm-hmm. . And so a lot of my friendships were a lot of, you [00:25:00] know, we'll catch up if we only see each other once every three months, that's okay. We'll spend three hours together, catch up on everything. Things will just kick off the same. Cuz I had a lot that was like in person is when we connect and spend time together. And not as much like phone conversations, you know, text conversations would happen, but like I'm very much that, that joke they have online where it's like when you and your besties communicate by sending each other 20 memes a day, but not no actual , that's basically me. Like we send each other means and then we catch up when we see each other in person. So it was obviously a big shift for me to. a baby and then there'd be the pandemic. So then I have to take extra precaution cause I have a little one, then I'm pregnant again. And so I can't attend the events as much as I used to. I can't go on vacation with them anymore. So it shifts and changes and like, I'm still as close with my friends, but like, we don't speak regularly because that was never, phone calls were just never our thing. Mm-hmm. , but Shivonne's like my, and like [00:26:00] I, I, I am a person that will talk on the phone with someone, but I don't really initiate phone calls. It's just not like my go-to form of communication. Uhhuh . So like, Shivonne and I have definitely grown together cuz she calls Uhhuh . And we're very much like, we're like the get ready with me people, like we're on the phone, cooking breakfast, getting dressed. If we're driving, we're both running errands on the phone. Like, hold up, hold up. Excuse me. Can I get like prescriptions? Like just doing life together. . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . I love it. I love it. Like I my partner and I have been involved for a very long time. We never intended to stay together. I always plan to have kids by myself or raise them alone. and we were just gonna be friends and like that was it. And we ended up deciding to try together. But I still operate very much like a person who is their own. person. Mm-hmm. , who just happens to be dating somebody else. So like mm-hmm. . It's very much like when Shivonne calls me, I am all Shivonne's, like, Uhhuh, Uhhuh, . Talk to me homie. Like, , like, or I'll be like, Shivonne, I'm about to take the kids. Like, I was like, [00:27:00] I'm taking the kids to Sesame Place on Friday, you and MADDs down. And we went to Sesame Place together, and then we spoke on the phone, both of our drives. , Uhhuh, , Uhhuh, , Before I let y'all go, is there anything that you wanna leave our listening audience with? Kim. So some organizations individuals that I personally just follow one is her Instagram name is Whole Body Pregnancy. she's a doula and a certified childbirth educator. She is black and queer and her focus is on serving black and queer people. So I really love what she stands for and what she's about. Ancient song is another Instagram that I follow that does great things with black birthing. And last an individual who's page I follow who gives a lot of really solid advice and thoughts on the postpartum period. Her Instagram name is Shi Rose, and. , you know, they just discuss how postpartum is forever and like we aren't meant to be unchanged by parenthood and we aren't meant to be the same person that we were before [00:28:00] parenthood. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. And there's nothing wrong with needing support, whether it's the week after you give birth or a year after you give birth, or 10 years after you give birth, because you were fundamentally changed by bringing another human into fruition. So those are three pages that I follow closely and really appreciate. And like my call to action I think would be like we said, Shivonne and I are changing and growing together and look at how people are changing and decide if you're going to accept it or not. Sometimes you grow apart and that's okay. But really evaluate yourself and your relationships and see whether like Shivonne said you're pouring in or taking away. Because I very much stand by the principle of , don't aim to hurt. Aim to leave things better than you found them when you can. Yes, yes. Shivonne, I would say giving yourself grace, taking care of yourself. People always want to put the children first, but the truth of the matter is, [00:29:00] if you are not a whole healthy person, you can't be that whole healthy person for your children and, and have them grow up and be whole and healthy and being able to cope and problem solve and all types of things. So I would say take care of self first. Learn self first. Be there for yourself. , what I'm learning right now that for me it's more than just I'm gonna go get my hair and nails done. It means that I need to go get a massage. It means that I need to go to the chiropractor. It means that mm-hmm. , I have to go get that mammogram. Mm-hmm. , you know mm-hmm. . And it means that I might need that day away from my little guy just so that I can be a better person and mm-hmm. recollect. So yeah, just self-love. It's, it's, it's time to do that in, in all areas, whatever that looks like for you. Aw, I love that.

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