Episode Transcript
Welcome to Start to Finish Motherhood, a podcast for those thinking or already single mothers by choice, just looking for practical advice, but navigating life's relationships. When you decide to have children on your own, it doesn't mean that you're completely alone. I'm Aisha Jenkins, and I'm partnering with you every step of your journey.
AishaOverdub: hi everybody. I am here with Shivonne. If you recall, Shivonne and Kim were on Season 1 where we talked about being girlfriends and what that meant to to each of our lives. And I'm not 100 percent sure if at the time we mentioned that Shivonne was trying for her second and I think we did and my fingers were crossed that we were able to
Shivonne: bring you back.
So
AishaOverdub: my hope Is that for everyone in our community that is trying, that I get to have this very conversation, this is like the bee's knees, this is the cherry on top of everything that I think we all do in the community and the ways that we pour in so that we can come back and have this very real conversation on the other side of trying when you're at peace and you're just caught up in the craziness that is now your new normal.
And so I'm here today with Shivonne. And so Shivonne, if
Shivonne: you could just,
AishaOverdub: Refresh our listeners on your journey and then currently where you
Shivonne: are with bringing home a newly minted human added to your, your household. Hi, I am back. The last time we did chat, I think we ended with, I'll keep you posted. So fast forward, we do have a new little one.
His name is Sutton. He is five weeks old. He is such a joy. And so definitely it happened after, oh gosh. Blood, sweat, tears, hard work, all of the things, and life is happening, you know, as far as going on that journey when I first started, honestly, I thought it would be easy peasy because my first one was easy peasy.
But lo and behold, it was not. It definitely took a whole year because I had to go through the process again. It took a whole year. to to get a healthy embryo. My first try, my ovaries didn't respond. My second try all of my embryos were unfortunately not healthy. And my third try I got My one healthy embryo.
So that was a blessing. And but then it was still like a total year and a half because the doctors wanted to make sure everything was, was good. So just to
AishaOverdub: clarify, when you say tries, these are full
Shivonne: IVF cycles, IVF cycles, meds, money, emotions just, just all of the things. Yes. Full IVF cycles.
And it was it really, it really tested me because The first one I was like, okay, we hadn't made it to retrieval. So when you don't make it to retrieval, basically, not that it's like really easy, but you just, you know, purchase your meds. They, they try something else.
They maybe change your protocol and you know, you go through, but when you're paying out of pocket and you have a retrieval and you have embryos made, that money is gone. So I remember, okay, the first time I was like, okay, I'll get, I'll give myself a couple of months. And I'll try again. And so that's what we did.
And so when it came back that all three of the embryos. We're just not going to be viable. They weren't going to be able to use them. Because of, you know, Trisomy 18, 13 and all of these things. Keep in mind, you know, second time mama and I'm 43 years old. So, you know, just trying all the things I was heartbroken.
I had no idea. Where any more money was coming from. I knew that I wasn't going to deplete my savings doing this yet again. And so I just kind of like sat in that for a bit.
AishaOverdub: So you went
Shivonne: through,
AishaOverdub: A successful pregnancy and now
Shivonne: You're technically in
AishaOverdub: that fourth trimester. What does that feel like for you emotionally? I know I check in on you periodically and I think everybody knows like this is also a
Shivonne: sacred time. So let's talk through what the fourth
AishaOverdub: trimester has been like, is like
Shivonne: for you.
It's Plethora of different emotions. So it's, a joyous time.
I definitely feel like my family is complete, even though I am, happy and, and all of those things, I'm now trying to navigate. How to parent my oldest how to be there for my oldest.
I do have a village, but they're not on hand all the time. So it's tag, you're it. So I deal with that mom guilt. Am I giving my oldest enough? I, I feel like. I don't really feel it with my youngest because right now, he's eating and sleeping, but like, you know, my oldest and he's so curious about he loves his brother.
He wants to touch him and kiss him and hug him and all of these things, but then he also doesn't know his strength. He, he's exploring. He's got hands all over the place. Like he's jumping off of couches. You hear him in the background. So I deal with different, I go from fear to happy to excited to to guilt to, I even have my emotions where I want to, cry.
Because I'm also breastfeeding and, and you're just, you're trying to do everything. So even though the journey is definitely worth it, daily, I'm sitting in a different emotion trying to do it all.
AishaOverdub: Have you had the moment yet where it's like, oh my gosh, what did I do?
Shivonne: Yes I have I think I was actually having those moments, like, in my last month of pregnancy, like, oh wow, oh, okay, maybe, it's like, I know it was definitely easier with one and I'm really about to find out. So, yeah I'm sure I probably haven't even hit the crust of it because like we're in the house and, Maddox hasn't started school yet.
He was a COVID baby, so I'm, but yeah, and then I'm actually, you know what, and I'm scared.
So, I have, but I don't think it's, it's hit me fully.
AishaOverdub: It's all, all very normal. All very normal. And so I call that the sacred time because you It is just a whole bunch of glitter tossed up into the air and you have to figure out what to make of it. And so I'm glad that you have your hair braided, right?
Because it's one less thing to worry about. These were the times where I had a lot of stretchy clothes because, babies and
Shivonne: all that stuff. But it was really an instant. for
AishaOverdub: me and that I wasn't too worried about anybody else that was around me. I didn't have the reserves to even worry about everything else that was going on around me.
I was just putting one foot in front of the other, making sure everyone ate, was clean and dressed when we left
Shivonne: the house. That is my goal and that I have been successful in. Yes, and I will, I might add. I have never been spit up on more in my life than with this little, this little person, this little boy.
The fluid, the moisture, it's just like,
AishaOverdub: whatever. I have been
Shivonne: feeding on, I was like, I thought, you know, being a mom of a boy, my first boy, I had it under control. No, no, no, no, no. This one has managed to catch me every single time. I have not mastered how to cover up while I'm changing him. He's getting me.
And then like the vomit is just like, I'll have the baby, you know, the bib. The little burp cloth and then it's running right down my chest. I'm like, really? How did like you miss this whole? So yeah, the whole
AishaOverdub: blanket, you missed the whole blanket. Okay. So, all right. So while we're still in this space of everything being really fresh in your mind, let's talk about what surprised you and what you had to do differently.
Right. Because I
Shivonne: think that. Similar to you, I started trying for my
AishaOverdub: second at 39 and I was like, this is going to be easy. And then when you realize it's not, and you realize you're running out of money, you have to shift differently. You have to look at the future just slightly different because whatever moves you make now, you have to do, you have to Take corrective action, plus parent the two and pay for daycare for two.
Shivonne: So you went through a whole slew of different adjustments.
AishaOverdub: To this point, so I'm asking you this question because I want people to understand the reality of the situation and that it is not always a
Shivonne: straight line. So after my after I was not successful in July of 22 many things changed for me. I definitely, I had to move out of my apartment. So I was working as a contractor and so, you know, paying for my own everything, health insurance, everything you, you know, you could think of was coming out of my budget and I did get a little bit scared because I did not know if I was going to be able to try again, but I knew I had to curtail my spending.
I wanted a home. I wanted all these things. So when my lease was up in August of 22, I ended up moving in with a family member and we were there for 11 months and that actually helped because I did not have to pay rent. So that was great. Huh. But then there was another curve ball because I lost my mother in September of 22 and in the midst of all of this, not knowing what I was going to do, I found myself in Florida for almost a month handling all of her business with my sibling and that was crazy.
But you know, to be honest with you, it's solidified even more that I want to give. My child, a sibling and I don't know how this is going to happen, but we're moving forward. So I came back home and I had a girlfriend in my ear. We were working on my second job together and she was like, I know you don't want to go back to the school board.
I'm a former teacher. Now,, a behaviorist and she said, no, you don't want to go back to the school board, but I'm just telling you she was like, you know, you have a little one, it'll ease some things. You'll get your health insurance, your pension, yada, yada. And she said, and if you want to have another baby, you know, school board, it's in New Jersey,
AishaOverdub: they pay for IVF.
Shivonne: So my ears perked up. And before I knew it, I was looking for jobs, on school board websites or whatever. And it's crazy. I was ending all of my mom's business in Florida. The people were calling me for an interview and I was literally telling them, this is what's happening right now. And they were like, we'll wait for you.
Went in, went to an interview, like literally three days after I got home. And they hired me on the spot. So I landed a job. Like literally I was so crazy. But I landed a job with the school board and it wasn't far from where I live. So that was perfect. And I got all the things, my health benefits, everything that was going to make things easier.
My salary was great. I got, bonuses and it was just great. And so I got all the information and almost immediately I went into a cycle cause I had a plan. And so with that being said, I was living out of, family's house, which was not easy.
You're taking hormones, you're dealing with your toddler, but we made it and so went through another round, ended up with eight, five made it three made it to testing, and just like Maddox, we were down to one, and that one was healthy. What was different this time around though is I had polyps, I needed the polypectomy and all of that, but they wanted to put me into menopause.
AishaOverdub: Why did they want to put you into menopause?
Shivonne: So I had, low ovarian reserve. I also suffered with endometriosis and cysts and polyps and fibroids. So my hormones kind of fluctuated. And so, when you're sitting right there, you don't know when you're going to go into perimenopause, so they decided to clean everything out. And the reason they put you in menopause is because your estrogen levels control growth of things, whatever that is for your body.
So they decided if they cut that off, then I wouldn't have to worry about growth. So they put me in menopause for two months, starting in January of 23, and then they waited for my body to show them that it was ready. You did a natural cycle, like
AishaOverdub: using your natural good. Okay. Yes. Thank you for that. I'm so fascinated. Okay, so
Shivonne: now
AishaOverdub: that you are, are pregnant, how did you prepare your home and your life to welcome in a second
Shivonne: child? So, like I said, when, things were changing and we moved in with family, my goal was not to be there longer than a year. So I knew that I had already been there quite some time by the time I transferred.
So literally from February, I was looking at houses because I was like Let me see, you know, maybe I can do this house thing. Well, as you and I both know, interest rates were changing. People were outbidding people. People were coming in with cash. And when that last spike hit for that interest rate, and I was literally a couple of weeks pregnant, I was like, we're going to go out one more time.
And if I find nothing, I'm going to get an apartment. Like we're done here. We're going to push the pause button and I'm going to find a place for me and my kids. Because I'll tell you, once I got pregnant I had no patience for, it was like, boom, we're doing this and that's it.
And I will cut it all off. I'm like, so that's what we did. I found a place in July of 23. Luckily it was, it was a brand new town home for rent. It had everything I needed. And so. Boom. Like we weren't supposed to be out of my family's house until August. Honey, I found that thing and we were gone. So then I began, we transitioned and I began making my new place our home.
And I'll tell you, like, Maddox loves his home. So That happened rather quickly, and I was very happy that I was able to do that. And like, in my mind, I set up a schedule, everything that I was going to need to welcome this second baby. So preparing Maddox, we literally talked every day or every other day Even before I knew I was pregnant, we often talked about, siblings and brothers and sisters and he was adamant.
No, he was good. It was so funny. Cause I was like, Oh boy, he's like, no, thank you. But I did notice Maddox finding shows. On his tablet and on my phone that dealt with siblings. Everybody had a sibling. And so I was like, huh, it's weird. Okay. So he's understanding this. So fast forward, got pregnant. I kept telling him, there's a baby in mommy's belly, a baby.
He didn't want to hear it. He kept telling us he was the baby. But you know what? After a while, it began sinking in. And so the conversations we would have sunk in. I bought a book, you know older siblings are superheroes, and he had his cape, and he had his stickers, and we read it at night and all the things that we could do.
And then he began to notice my belly was growing. He didn't notice for a while. It's crazy, y'all, because when you go through this by yourself, you have your, your oldest child, they're sitting in the bathroom with you while you're throwing up, they're laying next to you while you're sleeping, and it's, it's a very sweet time, but you also feel guilty.
Because you can't do the things that you were doing. Cause sometimes you just feel really, really, really gross. But he was right there and I constantly talked to him about the changes and what to expect. And when we got up to the time, couple of weeks before I was going to give birth, I said, mommy's going to have to go to the hospital.
And to have your brother. And that means that the baby is no longer going to be a mommy's tummy. And so when mommy comes home from the hospital, it's not going to just be mommy and Maddox. It'll be mommy Maddox and baby brother. And he sat in silence for a little bit. And then he looked at me and he said, okay, so it's so funny how like he accepts the three of us.
Don't let a newcomer come over here and stay too long. Right. Okay.
AishaOverdub: I know as a single mother by choice, when you have a child that is already here and you're about to go to deliver, there's a lot of things that you have to consider. So what did you do with Maddox when you went to deliver?
Like who kept him? Did you have a sitter? Did you drive yourself to the hospital? Did you
Shivonne: drive yourself home? So I went. I went in, I wrecked my brain for all of that. Cause you know, as, as a single mom by choice, you will do things. If you have to drive yourself to the hospital, that's just what's going to happen.
I mean, we work it out, but his godmother, who he's very familiar with is probably the only person who can come and whisk him away. She stayed with him. And I stayed in the hospital for four nights, so we kind of had that planned out. I didn't plan the fact that he really was, I don't know if I should use the word traumatized, but I'm his person and being away for four nights and we co sleep.
It was hard on him because for the first few weeks he kept saying, are you going to the hospital? Are you going to the hospital? And I'm like, no, I'm just going to a doctor's appointment. And he was adamant about coming. I did have a backup plan, which was his godfather.
Luckily, that didn't have to happen.
So who was with you in the delivery room? So my aunt which is also the person that we were staying with. Yeah.
AishaOverdub: When you start out trying for two, you don't anticipate it being long. My journey was almost three years. Your journey sounds like it was almost
Shivonne: two, two and a half. Yeah, well, yes and no, because I was still breastfeeding, so yeah.
All right, so what are some
AishaOverdub: things you would advise people who are trying to support you on your journey? To not say, to not do, or just different ways
Shivonne: that they can support someone who's going through a longer than anticipated journey?
Oh boy so definitely one thing that I heard that was very, not helpful what I was trying and the second time didn't work out. It's like, okay, well, you know, at least you tried and now you know, like, okay. Not helpful. You, you have no idea like what this journey is about. If I'm going to try to do this again, I just feel like people need to, if you don't know what to say, say nothing, but just show up, listen.
And you, you can ask questions at the right moment. But if you don't know what to say, just, just kind of listen to what the person is saying and you'll begin to know. I would also say research, you could do research without asking all these questions. I think that was probably the only thing that I definitely heard.
I'll tell you like. My aunt she didn't say anything. She didn't know what to say. She knew what was happening. She didn't ask me if I was going to try again. Every time I told her I was going, she just listened. And so to me, that was support enough. I didn't need all the questions and all of that, but she also went through IVF herself years ago. So she knew that it was, it was not easy.
I will say to those that are trying, whether it's this process, whether it's adoption, whether you're still thinking through the process, I will say, give yourself grace, but also try to drown out the noise, especially of those people who don't know what it is you're going through. Those, people who may be married and chose to have kids that way, or are single by circumstance or are friends, try to drown out that noise.
Try not to ask them what they think. All right, always go rely on your gut. If this is something you want to do and you've prayed about it, or you talked to your God or whatever you believe in, or you want to do that, do it, rely on yourself People come and go support comes and goes, and, and this is your decision and your decision alone.
Don't get caught up in the noise because, when you think long, you think wrong. And a lot of us operate out of fear, but I knew that I wanted to be a mom since I was very young and tender. And I was not going to let anybody stop me. So you be very careful with this journey and who you share it with and don't be surprised when they don't agree. I would say that. Good, good, good. So when you're trying
AishaOverdub: and you have another child and you have other family obligations, what did you do to balance living and not being consumed by your try for two journey?
Shivonne: Well it's, this time was different only because I wasn't scared about this journey. Like my first one, because the first one is the unknown. The second one is like, I, I guess I, I, I kind of had the mind frame of this is happening. I'm going to make it happen. I did get to the point at some point where I was like, okay, if this doesn't happen, then what?
So I lived my life. I did what I needed to do in those moments, like take. My medications or whatever, but honestly, Aisha, I just lived my life. If I wanted to go out, I went out. If I wanted to have a cocktail, I had a cocktail. If I wanted to talk about my journey, I did, but this time around, I didn't.
I just lived. And so when I announced that I was pregnant, people were surprised. But I lived and my living looked different because prior to my first, I traveled a lot. With my first, we travel, but we don't travel as often, but we do other things. And so I really discovered and created friendships with my SMC moms and, friends.
So we did that play places. I really, I probably really got into work and, things like that. And, so prep this time was different cause I, I lived. I love that. Yeah. Okay,
AishaOverdub: So let's get to the baby shower because one of the questions we got from a community member is, as a single mother by choice, what should you prepare for in the
Shivonne: first year?
AishaOverdub: Did you find that your needs shifted from having the first baby shower to the second baby shower?
And then what were your top
Shivonne: three items that were must haves that you find very useful? Okay, so my needs definitely did shift because I saved a lot of the, the infant car seats, the, the rocker. The swing, you know, so there was certain things that I did save all of the coats, all of the shoes, but my kids are born in two different seasons.
So that was a little bit different for me. Plus I had used all of my first born's clothes. I went to like a store called Once Upon a Child and we would size up. So that was, that was perfect for me. What my must haves were diapers and wipes.
Any size, bring them. Thank you. The other thing that I didn't get this time around that I wish I got more of, I wish I got more clothes. Like I literally had A lot of onesies, but I didn't have the zero to three month clothing. We spent the first few weeks back and forth to the doctors and I'm somebody who likes to dress the baby.
Oh, so what was definitely, what saved my life is having a playpen bassinet upstairs in my bedroom and then a playpen bassinet down here. So one I had from Maddox, so I kept that one and then I ended up getting another one that was on the baby list.
I have one of those little chair that rocks. I had one from Maddox, which connects to a swing. So I have one upstairs and one downstairs. I've got a changing table, which I actually moved downstairs to my playroom. I play area and I have a smaller changing table upstairs. So definitely. Thinking about the layout of your home because that upstairs, downstairs, I feel like whether you've had a C section or a vaginal birth, that upstairs, downstairs, you, you spend a lot of time, like I spend a lot of daytime time in my living room, kitchen and play area.
And the nighttime is upstairs. My breast pumps. I have electronic breast pumps and I have plug ins, so my electronic ones go upstairs with me at night. But then I have a pair for downstairs, so if that's what you choose to do. So you kind of have to just think of those important items to make your life work.
AishaOverdub: So what are your plans for, for child
Shivonne: care? So, Maddox had a nanny. She's still with us. I opted not to send him to Pre K 3 even though my district had it. So she stayed. She continued to stay. I didn't want to send him because you know all the journey. He's going though, he's been registered.
But we will keep the nanny and right now I have her while I'm on leave. She comes three days a week, but when I return to work, she'll come five. So then I'm just prayerful that I keep making money. So she can keep getting paid.
AishaOverdub: Okay, and so let's just briefly talk about what your plan is for maternity leave.
So here in the
Shivonne: United States we get six weeks. Short term disability. Some companies give you
AishaOverdub: fully paid 12 weeks. What's your situation? And then when are you going back to work? I don't
Shivonne: want to rush it, So my situation is the school board pays into short term disability.
They only give you six weeks unless the doctors you know, put in a request. Recently, I had to put in a request because my c section is taking a little bit longer than the first so they requested another two weeks. We'll see what happens. First, I had to use vacation and my sick time, so that covered my month of January where I still got paid.
I live in the state of New Jersey, so I have the state disability insurance for bonding time. FMLA, from the job is unpaid, so that's why you have all of those other things.
And I go back to work the first week in May, all right. And thank you for
AishaOverdub: that. Yeah. Cause I think that that's important too. I think
Shivonne: the way I approached maternity leave was definitely
AishaOverdub: trying to hold on to vacation days. I also held on to income tax returns and any little bits of money I got throughout the year.
And then I managed to take 16 weeks with my first and maybe 14 weeks with my second which I consider a luxury. Okay. So
Shivonne: was there anything that surprised
AishaOverdub: you throughout your journey for two, either pregnancy, trying or what
Shivonne: have you? You know, probably in the second one, how big I got very fast. But you know, surprising,
AishaOverdub: I won't really
Shivonne: say I was surprised by anything. I mean,
I did really well, but I will say My support system has come through. I did let them know beforehand what support could look like for me. And they've come through between cooking a meal, coming over to sit with babies. So me and Maddox could do bath time. And constantly checking in, like, what do you need
or like, I need to go to the doctor. Can you do this? Can you meet with over there and sit with the, thank you, baby. And sit with the kids in the car. And, so I was surprised that. Surprise it myself, one, for asking and two, for it being delivered. You know what I'm saying? Desperation.
Desperation. Kind of, you know what they say, you have not because you ask not. So therefore, but yes. So that's, that's what has, but it's been a pleasant surprise. Okay. I recovered very quickly from my first C section. And this time the doctor is like, you know, he's like, you know, it's your second, you had scar tissue, you're a little bit older, even though he's like, but you're young, but you're like, oh, okay, thank you.
But, you know, I'm just kind of going with the flow.
AishaOverdub: Okay. What advice do you
Shivonne: have for those trying for two? Hmm. Those trying for two. If you're gonna do it, do it. Don't wait too long and think you have all the time in the world because you have one or because you have embryos frozen. Because you don't know what your body's going to do. You don't know where you are at this point. And You know talk to your doctors, set up your timeline, and be prepared for a different type of outcome.
If you have to go back for another round of IVF, what that looks like for you, have those conversations with yourself. And also have the conversations of what it looks like if it doesn't happen for you. So just be completely Honest with yourself. One thing that I would encourage that I'm actually doing now is go back through therapy.
This journey is not easy. I am actually in therapy now because I don't, you know, want to put all those, bring those traumas into how I'm raising my boys and, and the things that I discovered and I didn't know that things bother me. I guess the depth that things do bother me or that I need to kind of like work through.
So do therapy. That would be the last thing I say. Yeah, go, go back through therapy and, and make sure you get some guidance and questions answered for yourself.
AishaOverdub: All right. So
Shivonne: what
AishaOverdub: advice would you have for new moms? Because you are Currently in this
Shivonne: newish stage, but also you're
AishaOverdub: a new mom
Shivonne: of two. Right. Expect the unexpected, go with the flow laugh when you can, it's okay to cry, and new moms of two, foster the relationship between your two, you know Maddox and I had to have a conversation, he was upset with me about two weeks ago, and I had to let him know, it's okay for you to be upset and frustrated with mommy, don't take it out on your brother, he didn't do anything, and so, love your brother, kiss your brother, and if you're okay with me and you need not to not talk to me for a few minutes, that's okay, so talking to the oldest explaining things and give yourself grace.
This, this is not easy, especially the first couple of weeks where you're trying to Find your ebb and your flow and dance in the rain and get out the house when you need to. It's, so give yourself grace because it's, it's, it's not easy and every baby's different.
AishaOverdub: All right. And then anything that we didn't cover that you think is important?
Shivonne: No, I am just happy that I made the choice that I made. It was, it was worth everything and the sickness and all of that. It was, I'm glad that I did it. I am here and my family is complete. So, yeah. All right.
AishaOverdub: Well, Shivonne, thank you for taking some of this precious time to chat with me. I've been on you for weeks and I'm like, checking in.
So when you were like, yes, I could take this call, I was like, all right, turn off the stove, put all the food aside, let me just go get my laptop. and so I'm so glad, I'm glad that you're a part of my life. I'm glad that I got to walk with you on this journey. I'm
Shivonne: glad that I get to see your face
AishaOverdub: right
Shivonne: now.
AishaOverdub: And so,
Shivonne: so thank you.
Thanks for listening to Start to Finish Motherhood with Aisha. If you want to keep the conversation going, follow Start to Finish Motherhood on Instagram or email me at aisha at start to finish motherhood. com. If you love this episode, please share it with anyone who's thinking of becoming a single mother by choice, anyone who's already parenting as a single mother by choice and just looking for advice on navigating it all, or a friend or family member who's looking to support someone else's single mother by choice journey.
Until next time, bye now.
