Episode Transcript
So our next guest popped up on my radar during the 2020 lead up to the Single Mother by Choice Conference. And Denna led a discussion around accessibility. Within our SMC group.
It was a private conversation that I thought needed to be had it was around diversity accessibility and making folks feel as if they are connected in a part of the community. . And [00:01:00] so I wanted to have this discussion. It resonated with me for a number of reasons, but I thought that it was an important discussion to bring to the forefront because sometimes organizations would like to back into diversity,
and it's really hard to back into that. You have to go into it knowing that I wanna make sure everyone feels included, so that way you take special attention to pull people and say, Hey, give me your take on this. What's missing, what should be added, and then proceed from there.
But a lot of organizations post George Floyd are suddenly backing into it, which is kind of clumsy, but it is what it is. So I'll introduce our special guest. This is Denna. Denna is a Single, Mother by Choice to a son, and Denna's also a dog mom. Dina, do you wanna go ahead and introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your family and your SMC journey?
Thank you for having me on your show. I'm really excited to be [00:02:00] here. I'm Denna Lambert. I live in the DC area, . I have a three year old son, three and a half year old , more accurately through domestic private adoption. And I started my journey.
Oh my goodness, probably five years ago when, , I went for my yearly exam and I was hitting 35 at the time. and my doctor was starting to use words like geriatric, pregnancy. And I was like, whoa, what is this? So that all led into a lot of questions, a lot of self-reflection, and, really connecting with, with people who, chose different paths.
Some of the women that I met, chose to have children through fertility. Some of them chose not to have children at all to be child free, and some of them chose adoption. And so I spent a year or so just kind of doing self-reflection and [00:03:00] questioning to see what was the right answer for me.
Thankfully it led to being matched with a family who was seeking adoption for their child. And I was selected by them to be their son's mother. So I was there from the very beginning. I got a chance to cut the court and it's just been a wild ride. Ever since, and a process of learning and growing and adapting which I would say very much, accustomed to as someone who was born blind
my parents, they're just, incredible people, they come from very simple means. They did not have the same opportunities that I have been afforded. So it was a time in which we were learning and growing and adapting together, and I think that that has taken me forward into how I approach motherhood.
So all of that to say thank you for
having me here, . I love it. I think we're in the same place with our three year olds. [00:04:00] My youngest is three and a half as well, so I feel your pain.
It is. It's a daily, oh my goodness. I feel like this process, especially going from newborn to infancy, to , a baby to full toddler and now preschool, it kind of goes into peaks and valleys and plateaus.
Yeah. Where, there's this new developmental phase and you're trying to gather as much information and milestones and developmental processes and understanding that. And then you get to a place where it's clicking, it's all, matching together, and then they start to do something different.
It feels chaotic, and then you have to adjust and learn, and then you hit that nice, rhythm. And I feel like that is, something that rapidly happens in those very early years. Mm-hmm. . And so even six months ago,
What
worked back then doesn't necessarily work now. So . [00:05:00] Right, right. I have, have gray hairs to prove the amount of learning and wisdom I'm gaining each day.
Yes, yes.
Denna, can you tell me how old you are? I know it's like taboo to ask a woman their age, but, yeah.
I am 42 years old. I think a lot of people are saying 40 is now the new 20 or something, and there there's this mantra out there of, if you see a 40 year old woman, just out in these streets, mind your business.
My journey has been, my twenties were dedicated to my career. Mm-hmm. and just, , trying to level up and elevate myself from where I started, from which I grew up in a neighborhood. Was, not invested in equitably.
So there was a lot of socioeconomic barriers. There was a lot of violence that happened and my parents instilled in me that I could have more. And so my twenties was dedicated [00:06:00] to building that foundation, getting a master's degree, doing all the leadership training programs I could through work.
My thirties was, you know, building on that confidence and starting to have a bit of fun. And now I'm in my forties and I'm chasing after a three-year-old, so I think I may have done it backwards, but
So the reason I asked about your age is because, you know, geriatric, you know, pregnancy, geriatric mom, you know, it's just like, okay.
So that is just a framing that society uses, right? These three year olds, these young kids will keep you on your toes in a way that go into the gym, had never. Never. And so I find that, I'm running, I need to stay active. I need to stay fed and hydrated so that I can chase around this three and a half year old, which, like you said, it goes through peaks and valleys where you're struggling to keep them alive cuz they know just enough to be like I can do.
But they don't always have the logic or, the self-control Yes. to be like, okay, [00:07:00] that's not exactly safe. And so I find that I have to have sneakers. I no longer wear, wear heels, haven't worn heels really since I become a mom, because I need to be able to sprint and catch a three and a half year old who's, yes, everything is a game.
It's like, no, we're not playing Frogger in the street. Brother in the parking lot.
But but I would say that now having a three and a half year old because you know, so much of my twenties was very much, just down and in and being serious and, and doing the grind mm-hmm. and I have to kind of catch myself that there we're supposed to have fun, you know, so I can learn from my son of how to just let go for a moment.
Go down a slide and enjoy the exhilaration, that I otherwise maybe not would've had. So there is definitely goodness that comes from motherhood in your forties, .
Yes. Yes. So Dana, have you ever thought about having two? [00:08:00]
So there are some very practical questions. Mm-hmm. As a Single Mother by Choice.
also being a Single Mother by Choice with a disability to live this life. There are some supports that I need to have in place I moved to the DC area from Arkansas. So basically all of my family are in Arkansas. Mm-hmm. . So I'm truly a single mom who has had to build a village on my own.
Some of that through relationship, some of that through hire and for me and the kind of experiences is I would like to offer my son that would cost an additional amount because I need to pay for a driver or pay for, you know, extra transportation. Mm-hmm. for me, what I landed on is that while I would love for my son to have a sibling, to live in the home mm-hmm.
It would detract from the [00:09:00] experiences I would like to have if I chose to have another child. Mm-hmm. . And where I would like to shift my efforts towards is giving him the foundation mm-hmm. to have a relationship if he so chooses in the future with his birth family and siblings. So for me that means going to visit his birth family, maybe setting up outings with them.
But on a day-to-day basis, I did not envision having a second child. Now. A partner comes up or a spouse comes along and they have children, and we can become a blended family. I am all for it. . But honestly the answer wa was no. Unless I, I'm a woman of faith, so unless God puts a child right at my front step,
yes, I'll parent that child. But to intentionally go into it, the answer for me, and a lot of this is really looking [00:10:00] at my own circumstances, gathering as much information as possible. I am a researcher by training. And, and coming up with good sound conclusions. It, it didn't make sense. So where I will put my effort in is to make sure that he can have relationships with his birth siblings and his birth family, but also have.
Good, solid friendships with kids in the neighborhood. So because that's where I found, kind of richness and goodness in my own life, is really building strong sound relationships with people of a lot of different backgrounds. It takes time and effort and investment, but it's worth it in the end to do that.
So you're
also a dog mom? Us A
is the other day, . My son will have a dog, sibling. He does have a dog, Uhhuh. They act like that all the time. So I have a. 10 and a half year old black lab. [00:11:00] Who was my seeing eye dog. She traveled with me f for work multiple times in a month. We had a lot of fun together on fun trips.
We traveled, you know, for classes in the evening. We did all the things. Uhhuh, , and so now she is enjoying retirement with me. Mm-hmm. , and I would like to offer that retirement to her, through the end of her days. Yes. As just kind of a sentiment of thank you and appreciation.
Mm-hmm. for what? , her being my service dog has meant to me. Mm-hmm. , so I am a dog mom as well. I was that dog mom that planned birthday parties for my dog that invited the other neighborhood dogs to come to my yard. So I am that level of dog mom, .
The reason I ask is because we're currently going through the phase with my eight year old who's like, we want a family pet, right?
Yeah. And so we're, and I know I'm not a cat person, but I believe in my heart that I'm a dog person, and [00:12:00] dogs they give as much as they get.
Yes. Right?
Yes. So, I do realize that Caleb is probably gonna want to have a pet of his own. Mm-hmm. , and I'm just preparing myself, mentally, is that gonna be. A rabbit, is it gonna
be a
dog? Uhhuh, ? God forbid it's a reptile of some sort.
Uhhuh . Uhhuh . Uhhuh . Yes. Yes. So I'm preparing myself. I know that Caleb will experience loss. When Angie transitions, mm-hmm. , we know that the life expectancy of a big dog is somewhere between, you know, 12 and 13 years. Thankfully, she's healthy right now, but I do know that he may want his own pet later on.
So, come back in a couple years and we'll tell you an update on that .
All right? . So what does a day in a life look like for you ?
So I think now that I've hit , Caleb being [00:13:00] three and a half, I am starting to feel less of the exhaustion that you feel when your child is, infancy and waking up in the middle of the night. So I am, starting to train my body to wake up before him because, , now that he's three and a half, he's not able to make breakfast on his own.
Mm-hmm. , but he is certainly able to get into all kinds of trouble. . Yes. I'm learning that I need that, you know, 35, 45 minutes before he wakes up. My goal is to be able to exercise before he wakes up. But. , I am not there yet. So honestly, I wake up at six o'clock, six 15. I try to get in 10, 20 minutes of reflection time.
You know, that could be just breathing, you know, meditating, prayer, reading a chapter in the Bible, something like that. Mm-hmm. Usually on Saturday, what my son and I do, [00:14:00] we will set up our clothes for the week. Okay. And I have a, a shelf that goes Monday through Friday. Mm-hmm. and so. . Usually he will wake up at 6 45, 7 o'clock.
I'll tell him, Hey, let's start to get dressed. So we pull out some clothes that's from that shelf. Mm-hmm. . He's not at a point where he's picky about what he wears. So thankfully I can just pull out whatever it is and he puts it on without a fight. I am starting to get him into a routine of, we wash our face, we brush our teeth, we brush our hair so we do those things together.
If I'm not able to do those things before he wakes up at 6 45. Right. We do a simple breakfast. One thing that I have established as a blind parent, we do have carpool with a local family that they live near us, so, pick him up at eight 30 in the morning to go to school.
Prior to that arrangement, I [00:15:00] did hire local senior citizens who they didn't necessarily need the income as a full-time job mm-hmm. , but they liked the routine and they were reliable for providing transportation for us in the morning. So usually from 6 45 to eight o'clock we're getting dressed, getting breakfast.
I try to. Get my dog out for a quick walk. So Caleb is used to doing, you know, let's take Angie on a walk for 10, 15 minutes and usually that does help to burn up a little bit of energy that he has in the morning so that when he is going to school and maybe waiting in the line or whatever, he's a little bit more settled.
Mm-hmm. He goes to a Montessori school, which is part-time. And so once he is off to school at eight 30, I start my day at work. Mm-hmm. Usually at 9:00 AM right now I'm working. So I don't [00:16:00] necessarily have the challenges of a commute, but with my job I do go on site once or twice a week.
And on those days my neighbor who, who also is a retiree, she doesn't have children of her own, she enjoys spending time with my son. She may take Caleb at eight o'clock and give me that extra 30 minutes to do a commute. Okay. And then once I start work at nine, I'm usually in back-to-back meetings or focus time where I'm trying to work on a deliverable.
Sometimes during the week while he's away at school, I'll have a doctor's appointments or hair appointments mm-hmm. , because, I need to get those things done for me. Yeah.
So you said you hired retirees. How did you find those retirees before you got into the carpool? And then how did you get connected with the carpool?
Well, okay, so one of the things as a, a blind mom or just a blind individual [00:17:00] one common task is. You know, accessing mail.
So for many years I was very much used to kind of hiring readers mm-hmm. That I needed to help me read the mail a couple times a week or help me go shopping so I could, , find items a lot more efficiently than I would be on my own. So I have built, , relationships with our local churches, you know, if I could, , post an announcement in their bulletin or in our city's graceful aging group and they have a volunteer service that I'm like, Hey, , would you like to pick up an extra 20, $30, , maybe $50 a week?
Here's what I'm needing. , when I was younger, I would use college students. Mm-hmm. . And that was okay, but sometimes the reliability wasn't as great. Right. But now that I've built a, a core group of three to four different individuals that I can rely on for [00:18:00] transportation, then I can set up a schedule with them that is also flexible for them, knowing that they have, let's say, medical errands or things that they have to do in their own.
Okay. So that's how I've kind of built in this, this core team. Mm-hmm. Of support for myself and Caleb that we can do routine runs, like going to school. But also the, the on-demand stuff of going to doctor's appointments are going to, fun outings, mm-hmm. around the area. I like it to be as self-sufficient as possible.
So that may mean, Hey, let's go get an Uber, ? Right. Or taking public transportation, but mm-hmm. , what makes sense right now and for efficiency is setting up carpool arrangements or utilizing the team of drivers that I. Okay.
Okay, cool. And so to contrast the start of your day, so similarly, I've got two kids.
I've got a three and a [00:19:00] half and an eight-year-old. And so instead of Saturdays laying out the clothes, we try to get into a routine where we do laying out the clothes on Sundays, because I typically would do laundry. And so it's like, come get your clothes, underwear, socks, shirts and bottom. For the eight-year-old?
Yeah, the three-year-old. She is particular about what she wears and so she like, and I can't get her to lay out her clothes. So Monday through Friday, where up at six, I get up at six. After hitting the snooze three times I will get myself, yes, .
I will give
myself, 10 to 15 minutes to kind of take a shower, get myself halfway to where I need to be in terms of, togetherness and getting dressed.
And then I get them up at about 6 45 and then their routine starts. So we do do baths the night before. So in the morning it is wash your face. Yes. Brush your teeth. Yes. And then whatever hair needs to be done, we do that and then it's get dressed. And then like [00:20:00] you, we do a hot breakfast because even though our daycare does do breakfast, At least for the little one, she's picky.
And if I try to leave the house without her having breakfast, she's like, I want breakfast at home. And so it's just like, okay. But for the big one, I'm more conscious of what I give her and try to make sure that it's balanced. You know, a hot breakfast at home kind.
That's what I grew up with as well.
My mom, you know, I would wake up to the smell of bacon, you know, in the morning she was in the
kitchen cooking. I haven't risen to her level
of parenting yet. But yeah, we, we try to get a, a good breakfast in, just hopefully so that it's sustaining, you know? Mm-hmm.
And, can take him through. So he, that he's not going to school hangry . Right,
right, right, right. And so, okay. All right. So now you work hybrid. Yes. And so sometimes you're in the office, sometimes you're, you're working from home. Okay. So you go to your, your work, you go through your [00:21:00] workday, and then what does pickup look like for the lamberts
okay. So again, my neighbor she, she has just been in one of those blessings, to step back for a moment when I first started this process of deciding to, have children, my neighbor was one of those who decided not to have children. Right. And I had pretty much assumed that she would be like a surrogate grandmother, One thing about the adoption process, it will force you to have conversations about what supports you have in place.
And so while my assumption was that she would become like the grandmother, I was wrong and we had to sit down and talk about what does it look like now, of course a lot of people say a lot of things change when a child comes. And certainly I would say rather than a grandmother, she's more like an aunt, a fun aunt that you can call on.
Okay. So she helps us with pickup in the evenings. She does not like [00:22:00] doing early morning runs. Mm-hmm. . So she said, Hey, I can help with the afternoon pickups. So we go, we pick up my son from And then we come home usually she'll drop us off at a playground that's in walking distance to our house, and then we just walk home.
So that's what pickup usually looks like. If for some reason she has another commitment or she's running late, I can reach out to one of those other three or four drivers that I have to see if they're available to help out with pickup or again, I always have, you know, a backup of using Uber if I need to.
Again, it is an expense, but that is part of the, the calculus that I do each month as a blind mom of setting aside money for Ubers if I need them
just in case. Yeah, so hang on, we hear a lot about villages as Single, Mother by Choice,
I'm curious about this relationship with the neighbor. You, were y'all friends when you moved to the neighborhood?
[00:23:00] I lived in apartments, literally just down the street from where my home is.
And so I moved up the street when I was in the process of buying my home, I told my realtor, whatever house you show me, we're gonna have to walk to the grocery store or to the bus stop. I need to know that I can get, you know, the basic necessities very easily on my own right. So the location that I picked for this home I can do that.
I live in Old Greenbelt. It was designed as a walkable community back in the 19 thirties as part of the Roosevelt's administration, , desire to bring veterans home and help build families. So they build a community to where there's homes surrounded by courts and pathways. Go to a community center.
So it was a, it was an ideal location for me as a person. So I didn't know any of the people moving in. I was this young black woman, inner late twenties [00:24:00] moving in. And this community at the time was much older. A lot of retirees, a lot of older families in their fifties, sixties, and seven.
So my neighbor, she was still working at the time, but nearing the end of her career. How we met was, I didn't realize that my dad had gone and met the neighbors when I moved in Uhhuh, . And they helped my parents, helped me move in. My dad was going around meeting the neighbors to say who handles the yard and who does it.
So he was thinking of things that I wasn't even thinking of yet. So he kind of set up that introduction for my neighbor. Mm-hmm. , but actually how I met her. . My guide dog at the time was a very old soul of a dog named Denver and I had a housewarming party . And so I was, I was so proud of my little home.
You know, my little home is only about 1100 square feet, so it's not a lot of home, but [00:25:00] it's much bigger than a one bedroom apartment. So I had a party, , I had people willing to come see, you know, my home cuz I was one of the first of my friends to actually get a home. And unfortunately my big yellow lab was going around eating people's food off of their plate, because again, I didn't have the fancy setup for, hosting
parties.
I
was doing what I could, so, My neighbor noticed what was happening and she was like, would you mind if I just grabbed your dog? So you know, he's not getting in trouble? And I just said, yes, so here I am having to go over and extricate my dog from her house. Mm-hmm. . And she said, oh, you had quite a party over there,
I'm like, I promise it's not gonna be a thing every week. This was just house. Cause I didn't wanna cause a ruckus with all of these quiet, older neighborhoods.
Right. Something
living next door. Course. [00:26:00] Yes. And of course, let's just re be real about it. I was one of the first black young professionals moving into the community, so I know they were watching and being concerned about what is this situation going on over here.
Right. So eventually, She has become my chosen family. We've gone on trips together. She has helped me navigate the, the loss in grief that I had with losing my, my previous guide dog, Denver. She also has dogs over there, so she knew what that process was gonna be like. She, she traveled internationally and when I told her that was one of the things I wanted to do, she helped me figure out a trip, , that I could do.
Yes. And then we set up little trips that we went on, just me and her. She is 70, she's now 74 years old, so she was quite a bit older than me. So to see what life could look like [00:27:00] as an active. Woman who's still single, Uhhuh , but has good relationships and friends and family. Yes. It kind of gave me a blueprint of what my life could look like.
Yes. In 20 or 30 years. Yes. Just knowing that it was possible, because I think I was still in that mindset of you have to get married Yes. In order for your life to be fulfilling. Yes. And here I had a neighbor who kind of broke that mold, ? Yes.
So that was one of the things, like I think there's something very special about friendships between women and respecting where someone is, and then.
Valuing kind of what they bring into your world, what they expose you to, and there's something about slowing down and really kind of connecting on that level. Like you made choices. [00:28:00] I made choices, and, but yet here we are in this moment in time connecting. And it's a beautiful thing when it happens.
And then it does give you hope because you're talking to someone who has been where you are. Right. Kind of age wise. Yes. And then you're looking at what a future could be like. Right. Whatever you choose. Like sometimes we think like, oh my gosh, you know, if it's not marriage, if it's not kids, if it's not a picket fence in the White House, then it's like doldrums and it's like despair and depression and it's just like, but it's not like every day you wake up, you get to choose what you wanna take from this life and what legacy and what connections you wanna make.
Oh yeah. I think that there's something so sweet about that.
Oh yeah. And she is just been when I, started talking to her about becoming a mother, , I'm, I'm so glad that she's just been a great sounding board. Yeah. Of someone who is older. And while she did not choose marriage and, [00:29:00] and motherhood for herself, she kind of helped me navigate that process.
So she actually went with me to the parenting classes and mm-hmm. to , some of the adoption seminars so that I could come to my own conclusion. And so while we had a clear boundary of she did not wanna be viewed as a grandmother with certain expectations, she definitely established this framework that she did wanna be a part of, our lives.
And so that's what that looks like. Now when my 10 and a half year old lab needs a break from the three-year-old, she is happy to take Angie next door and give Angie a break. Yeah. And that is what is great about, I think realizing that being a seasonal mother does not have to be a black mark, against us as women that we can build a network, an ecosystem of sorts of where [00:30:00] we contribute to other people.
So, mm-hmm. for me, you know, I'm contributing to these drivers while they are giving me a service. Many of them don't have family local, so they don't get a chance to see their grandkids. Right. And in some ways, Them getting a chance to be a part of Caleb's life is Yes. Giving them life in a way.
Yes, yes. Oh my God. Like hitting on something. So yeah, I had choices of who could be my kid's. Godmom. Yes. And I was intentional about choosing someone because it is a gift to, to, to nurture. A child, right? Whether it's your own or anybody else's. Like I look at other SMCs children and I feel blessed just being able to talk to their kids and who can you be a blessing to that is just, is gonna honor, where you are, honor the boundaries, you honor them, you respect them, you [00:31:00] love them, but also give them this gift of, being a part of your kids' lives.
And like you said, it's just, it's those moments where you see the humanity. Like, yeah, we're kind of in the same place. You, your family's not close. My family's not close, but let's build and let's be in this moment and let's just connect and
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's also, I, I'm hoping, I'm praying that I'm teaching my son that, you know there's goodness that comes from having good relationships being a contributor to those relationships, you know, in a healthy way.
So definitely a to be continued conversation.
I'm having such a good time with this conversation. So thank you. And I hate to shut it down. So why don't we plan on coming back with part two of this conversation next week?
[00:32:00]
