[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to Start to Finish Motherhood, a podcast for those thinking or already single mothers by choice. Just looking for practical advice for navigating life's relationships. When you decide to have children on your own, it doesn't mean that you're completely alone. I'm Aisha Jenkins and I'm partnering with you every step of your journey.
Hi everybody. I'm here today with Erica, who is a friend to the melanated single mothers by choice community. And we have a special topic to discuss today. So we're going to add a trigger warning that we will be talking about a breast cancer diagnosis. It is just one of many life experiences of single mothers by choice. Life doesn't stop. Events in the world doesn't stop. Once you become a single mother by choice, you end up just rolling with everything that gets thrown at you. And so I will first ask Erika to introduce herself and tell us a little bit about her single mother by choice journey and then we'll go into her story.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: Hi everyone. Thanks for having me on the show. My name is Erica. I am a single mother by Choice. I have two small children. I have an 8 year old son and a 5 year old daughter. I became a single mom through adoption. Both my children came to me as infants and I went down this path thinking I was just going to be a mom of one child. And when my son's adoption was finalized, I closed my license. I adapted through foster care. I closed my license and was, you know, pretty sure I was going to be one and done. It was just going to be my son and I for life. And as he got a little older, and I say older, he was around the age of two, approaching two and a half, I started to have some thoughts about a second child. More so for his benefit than mine. I was just concerned about him growing up as the only child because that was not my experience. I have an older sister who I'm extremely close with. And just at that stage of my son's life, I was thinking, feeling sad for him that he wasn't going to have that sibling bond that I have with my sister. Fast forward literally maybe two months, I was notified that my son had a new biological baby sister. My immediate thought was not to take placement, but within a few days of learning about her, I started to have a change of heart on that and started to connect the dots that me finding out about her was the answer to the question of my son being an only child and what happens if or what happens when. I was really concerned about if, if and when More so when, not if, because we all have to go one day when I pass on, my son would be here by himself and not have the connection to a sibling I have. So I decided to go ahead and proceed with placement for my daughter, who at the time was a little over two months old. And we were now a family of three. And about months later I was diagnosed with breast cancer. So I had a baby not quite one year old yet and a three year old son. And I was facing the battle for my life. And here we are today. Now four years later, here we are today.
[00:03:39] Speaker A: Erica is a survivor. And thank you for coming on to talk with us and thank you for your courage. And so to ground the episode, I just want to make sure that you're okay and you're in the right headspace to talk about it. And what are your ground rules for having this conversation with anyone?
[00:03:59] Speaker B: That's a great question. I'm very much an open book with my life, particularly with things now around my breast cancer journey and around my parenting journey, particularly my choice to become a single mother by choice and my choice to do so via adoption and then even the next layer of that to do so via foster adoption. I've always tried to share with other women what those paths have looked like for me, just because I found it helpful for me when I had those resources, just people to talk to, just to clarify things. I don't know that I necessarily have any ground rules except just maybe just be patient with me when I become emotional. Because all of it's very big, if for lack of a better word.
[00:04:44] Speaker A: I like what you said at the top of us engaging around this conversation where you said that there's a particular outlook that you have when you have these conversations, that you're intentional about certain things and certain conversations that you're going to have. And so I think of it the same way as someone who has experienced loss. And it's people say stupid things, they ask stupid questions. And so to set the foundation for this conversation, what is your framing for having these types of conversations with other people?
[00:05:16] Speaker B: I personally and intentionally try to stay away from the statistics around things just because they don't serve me well in my ability to cope with it all. They that was a very specific decision I made early in my journey. I really don't want to hear about. Statistically speaking, you only have X number of days, months or whatever, or this many women win the battle and this many don't. Because when I'm in it, as far as me and my life It's a hundred percent. I have 100% chance of beating it and I for sure have 100% chance that it's going to be a difficult journey. I decided early on just to be as positive as possible and not get caught up in the numbers because whatever it is for me in that day, it's that day, that moment, that portion of my fight. It is a hundred percent. It just it. That's what I needed to do to manage the anxiety and the fear that I was facing through all of it.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: Okay, all right, so take us through the day, the weeks leading up to your diagnosis.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: Sure. Let's see. I think most women know, and if you don't know, it's important to know that the medical community, for all of their what I feel is more so business related reasons, has moved away from the recommendation for women to have mammograms every year. They whether it's every other year, every five years, whatever you have been told by your provider, that's what their guidelines are. Mine at the time was every other year and that never sat well with me. So I continued to get mine every year. Also to note, I started getting my mammograms before the age of 40 because that was around the time that I was thinking about my motherhood journey and what that might look like. And I had very candid and open conversations with my doctor back then when she was really encouraging me to figure out what is it that I wanted to do as far as becoming a mother. Because I don't have all the time in the world. I'm not some celebrity that has endless financial resources to be able to figure out a way to birth a baby at the age of 57. So she was very candid with me, probably around the age of 35, which in hindsight probably was later than it should have been. But I'm just very grateful that she was very frank with me. If I wanted to become a mother, figure it out. So I started to think about it and then probably around the age of 37, 38, when I was really figuring out, okay, how are we going to do this? I felt that it was quite possible that I would either be pregnant or just had given birth and potentially still nursing when I turned 40 and therefore would not be able to get my mammogram, quote, unquote, on time. I talked with her about that and she agreed and we decided to get that first baseline mammogram at 38, I think. Yeah, 38 was my first one. And from that point I continued to get them every year, even though the recommendation was every other year. Fast forward to age. I had already previously had one concern on the mammogram. I had to have a biopsy that might have been around the age of 42ish. Everything was fine, move on with life. Then 44, which was supposed to be my off year for not to not have a mammogram, but I still did. That's when my breast cancer was discovered. So in speaking with my doctor about the timing of getting my first mammogram at 40 and thinking that if my plans went according to plan, I could very well be either pregnant at the age of 40 or having had just given birth and potentially still be nursing at the age of 40, which would delay my first baseline mammogram. Given all of that, she and I agree to to have my first mammogram early, to get the baseline kind of reading and know where things were. And that that first mammogram happened at age 38ish. I believe I continued to get my breasts, get my mammogram annually. And full disclosure, I was never good about monthly breast exams as I absolutely should have been. I don't think it would have changed my outcome because my tumor was so small when I had my mammogram at age 44. That's where my breast cancer was discovered. And the severity of the reality of what would have been had I not had the mammogram that year has never been lost on me. My previous mammogram was either no cancer or at minimum, it was undetectable. In a year's time, it was stage two. It's clear to me where things could have been had I missed my mammogram. That year, I was diagnosed with what's called triple negative breast cancer, which is the most aggressive and deadliest breast cancer. My providers made several mentions of the fact that I was under the age of 45 when getting that, because it's more common to have that type of breast cancer above the age of 45. Unfortunately, triple negative breast cancer is starting to rear its head more often and it's showing up. From what I understand of the population of women that have triple negative breast cancer, the numbers of black women in that pool are growing. And breast cancer is unfortunate across the board, but that's a big one.
[00:10:38] Speaker A: So can you explain to us what is triple negative breast cancer?
[00:10:43] Speaker B: Yes, triple negative breast cancer. There's three, what do I want to call them, receptors in the breast cancer space. And I may be getting this slightly Off. But this is the breast cancer best understanding that I have. One of the receptors is the hormone estrogen, the second one is progesterone, and the third one is her two. You could be positive or negative in any of those three. And your status in those three receptors really dictate what your treatment plan is gonna be and what your prognosis, et cetera. Triple negative means that you're negative in all three of those areas, which at the time when I was diagnosed, I, I thought I heard, oh, negative, that's great, it's not so bad. But I quickly learned that was not the case when you're positive in one or more of those areas, it really is clear on what the treatment plan will be when it's negative. And at least four years ago. Things have changed quite a bit in those four years. But it's more of a crapshoot if the treatment plan is really going to work for you. But they do hit it hard with the types of chemotherapy and the treatment plan. It's, let's get going now, let's hit it hard. And so like hearing the diagnosis if you have breast cancer is obviously extremely scary for anyone. But what I know now is hearing that it's triple negative. Breast cancer is definitely not a plus in the positive column. And I didn't know that then. Some of the things that, looking back as a woman, I wish I had known. I wish I knew more about breast cancer, that it's not just breast cancer, it is these three receptors there is triple negative, what to do, what to what not to do. We learn a little bit, but I don't think that we know enough.
[00:12:25] Speaker A: So before we get into things that you wish you knew, that would have been helpful at the time, let's go back to that day when you got your diagnosis right. Because as single mothers by choice, we were typically level headed, even keeled. But when you get some news that you're not expecting, it can sometimes throw you for a loop. So can you take us through what that experience was like and then how you proceeded that next hour?
[00:12:51] Speaker B: I absolutely can. It took a uncomfortably long period of time for me to get my biopsy results back because I had the mammogram, I had to get a biopsy, got the biopsy and just the results just took too long. The previous time where I had a biopsy results came back pretty quickly. So in my mind I had started to calculate, well, something must be wrong because if everything was fine, you get that, oh, everything's fine. Phone call pretty quickly. But if Something's wrong. They may have to retest and retest. So I had painted all this picture in my mind that something must be wrong because it's taking too long. So one Monday morning, I was driving my kids to daycare in on my going on my way to work and got the phone call from the doctor who had done my biopsy. And she told me as I was driving down the street with my babies in the car that it was cancer. And to your point about being a single mother, and I think this is just, honestly, I think this is just motherhood in general. My immediate thought was, I can't lose it right now because my kids are in the car. I can't scare them. They're way too little to understand what's going on. And I had the phone call on my Bluetooth so they could hear it. But fortunately they were too little to even understand what the words meant. I was less than 10 minutes from dropping them off and I held it together enough to get them to school. But in that 10 minutes of hanging up with the doctor, I did call my sister and I told her that the kids are in the car and that I got the call from the doctor and that we've got a problem. I don't remember if I told her exactly the words, but I told her enough to know we've got a problem. I dropped him off at daycare, I think I sat in the car in the parking lot for a few minutes and I went on to work.
And in hindsight, that's so crazy that I still went to work that day. But I remember I called one of my coworkers, who's a very good friend of mine still today, and told her what was going on. And she told me to go home. And I said, why, what am I going to do at home but make myself crazy? So I went on to work. Don't think if I had to do that over again, that would be the choice that I made. But at the time it was the right thing to do for me because I would have gone just crazy had I gone home. Excuse me. So I went on to work and fortunately I worked with a very, in a very small group of women. And it was. We all worked in one closed off space together, completely private, so we could shut the door. We would always talk about everything. So it was, you know, it was completely safe to go in there and just tell the group of six of us that I just found out I had breast cancer. And fortunately, things started moving quickly with my medical care. The doctor Told me that morning to expect a call from the scheduling department for an appointment and if I didn't hear from them in the next three days to call and make the appointment, I heard from them early that morning. Within a few hours I went right into my medical plan that same day. I had my first appointment with the the surgeon that afternoon and told my boss, this is what's going on and I'm not sure how many more days I'll be at work. I it just needless to say, things started moving quickly and very immediately, which was very good and had some thorns because of it at the same time. But I didn't have time to sit in the what if because I started to get information pretty immediately. That afternoon is when I was told that it was triple negative and what that meant, no, that's not so great. And scheduled my surgery that that afternoon. So I found out that morning in the 7am hour and by late afternoon I had a surgery date for my lumpectomy and understood what my treatment plan was gonna be. I'm grateful for that because I didn't have to sit in the wondering stage for more than a few hours.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: So thank you for that. So I know at one point I got some unexpected news, some devastating news. And I had a little one at the time. And I had eight hours to mobilize my. Get my mind, get into planning mode. I needed to mobilize my village. So what did your village look like and how did you spend those eight hours? Now probably down to six or four hours.
[00:17:04] Speaker B: Great question. Because my kids were still in preschool so I knew I had till 6:00. I didn't have the 2:30 or 3:00 pickup I had till 6:00. So I was able to get all of the various appointments done. And I want to say I have the most amazing village. I've had the most amazing village my entire life and it has continued to morph and adjust just perfectly over various life changes. I called, obviously I called my sister, but my sister lives out of state so she couldn't physically be here. But she was on the phone or a video during my appointments that day because she's our family note taker and researcher. Because I couldn't think straight in those appointments, very few questions I could articulate, but she had everything ready. My mom went with me to my appointment. So everybody got that phone call, had that initial shock. And to your point, we mobilized, I think one of my lifelong childhood friends, I wanna say she picked up my kids from daycare that day to make sure I had enough time to get everything done with the doctor, or at least she was prepared to. And as most things in my family news came, and it trickled down the various branches of my family tree pretty quickly, most of my family knew by the end of that day what was going on. When I say my family, my immediate family, cousins, aunts, all that kind of stuff, everyone knew what was going on on deck, ready to help, whether it's physically or heavy on the prayers. But everyone was mobilized immediately. My friend circle.
I let all those people know pretty immediately. And some people true fashion to my village. By the time I called them to tell them myself, they already knew, because my village took that burden off of me of having to continue to say it time and time again. One of my phone calls was also to my now husband, who was not my husband at the time, because I knew at some point in this I was going to need help with my son. And I just was calling the people who I knew I could trust with. I knew I was gonna need help with both my kids, but he had an established relationship with my son already. Not so much of my daughter just because she was so little. But, yeah, everybody was notified right away and ready to roll. My sister says now that she knew I was ready for fight mode when she saw me start creating Google folders on our Google Drive and sharing them with her. Like, I had a few days to just try to process it all. And then I went into, okay, how am I going to organize everything? Who needs to have access to what? So when she said, when she saw one day at work, when she saw notifications that Erica has saved x breast cancer file with you on Google Drive, she said, right then she said, okay, she's ready to fight. And that was true. I was ready to go.
[00:19:47] Speaker A: Okay, so you got your diagnosis. You mobilized your village. You were starting to put together what your plan of action was, the information that you need. And I know for me, when I do these things, it's given me something to do with that idle mind and that idle time in between scheduling appointments and actually going through surgery and treatments. Could we shift and talk a little bit about what life was like as you were going through the treatments and as you were. Because while you are a parent as well, there's still the Erica in this that needs to be taken care of. So how did you navigate the time that you were going through treatment?
[00:20:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I remember in the earlier conversations with my oncologist as far as what treatment was gonna look like, how long I was gonna be in treatment, which initially he told me it'd be six months, a six month treatment plan. I really thought that I was just gonna be off work for two weeks for my first surgery, which was my lump back, and take the two weeks to recover and I'd be able to return to work, parent my two babies and undergo chemo. He said, probably not. He said, if there's any room for you to be on full disability for the time, that's what he would recommend. In typical Erica format. I was like, I'll be fine. My father had a cancer battle at that time, about 15 years prior to that, and he still worked around his chemo. And so I thought, I can do the same thing because my dad did it. But again, that different type of cancer, different type of chemo, different person, just a completely different. People handle things differently and the chemo affects them differently. I took a leave of absence from work with the plan that, oh, I'll just. I'll be back in a couple of weeks after the surgery. But in those two weeks, I started to have a mind shift of, if I don't make it, how do I want these next? What do I want these potentially last months or year, whatever to look like? And it wasn't working. The lump back itself wasn't tough on me. I have a really high tolerance for pain. So it was outpatient, had the surgery, was home that night, and my mother probably had to force me to rest because I was still trying to do my thing. But it took about a month between my lumpectomy and my first chemo treatment. And my doctor talked me into at least getting through the first couple of treatments to see how I tolerate it before I decide if I'm going to go back to work or make any decisions about this whole six months. He said, let's just take things one step at a time. And when I decided to just remain off, I'm glad I did that, because if I was going to be taken from my babies or take it from my family, I wanted to make the absolute best of that time and not have to spend hours at work for no reason at all. Fortunately, I live in a state that has state disability, and I had supplemental disability plans, which I'm a firm believer in, which enabled me from a financial aspect, not to have to work during that time. So I had my treatments and I was okay. Fortunately, chemo didn't knock me out as bad as it does on other people. My first couple of months, I had treatment every other week from the first Part of my chemo or treatment plan. And then I transitioned into having chemo every week. From a physical standpoint, the first type of chemo that I have is supposed to be so extreme they nickname it the Red Devil. I wasn't comfortable calling it that because I wasn't comfortable calling anything the devil that was being put into my body for the purpose of saving my life. I was not going to sign up for that, so I chose to call it the blood of Jesus. The worst part of it for me was I had an allergic reaction to it, anaphylactic shock type reaction, just immediately when it was first being put in. Quite honestly, I don't remember if it was that chemo or the second one. One of them I had a really bad reaction to in the treatment room. But I wasn't physically sick. As people who have not either been with someone going through treatment. I never was had the nausea. I had some nausea, but it never went beyond nausea. Wasn't anything that a nausea medication couldn't handle. I was sleep for about two straight days after treatment, but after that I was okay. And that first treatment having I had treatment on a Monday, I was pretty much zonked out through Wednesday, Thursday or Friday feeling pretty groggy. But I still could send my kids to school. So that was my kind of my reprieve during the day. But by the weekend, when you're full time mom, I'm always full time mom. But when you're on 100% of the day, I was okay. And then that second week I was really okay. But then to do it again in on that kind of that third week. But when I moved into the treatment, that was every week for 12 weeks, that was tougher. The chemo itself wasn't as tough, but mentally it was tougher because I had to get my mind back to that treatment room every week, every Monday morning. That was the start of my week. And one of the hardest parts of sitting in that room was wondering if the people that some people you saw, they were on the same like weekly schedule until you would see them, but then you wouldn't see them. And you wonder why. Is it just that their white blood cells are too low so they can't have treatment today? Or did something happen that was hard. It's the energy in the room is like very hopeful. It's a room of healing. But it's also for me, it was a room of everyone in here is fighting for their life. I wasn't too interested in making a lot of friends in there. I Didn't do too much talking to other patients. I think, fortunately for me, my battle was before COVID so at least I could have someone sitting in there with me. For those that were fighting during COVID and had to sit in that room by themselves, I just, my heart aches for them because even if I was sleeping in the chair doing my treatment, I knew my sister was there, I knew my mother was there. Somebody was there for me, and that made a big difference as far as handling life outside of treatment. I'm very grateful that my situation was such that I didn't have to go to work, that work didn't have to make things physically and mentally. Work didn't have to. Wasn't a factor to make things harder. It interfered with me taking care of my kids. I didn't take care of them alone. I had again, my village showed up, as they always do. I know my mother was with me, if not my mother.
My sister was there through my first treatment. My mother was with me every other treatment until my last one. She got sick and my godmother was there with me and brought me home. But I had someone in my close circle there every time. And friends volunteered to, hey, if you need me to go to chemo with you, let me know. I'll take off work, I'll go with you. I was not short of support at all. New friends I had had my whole life, everyone showed up to support.
[00:26:51] Speaker A: Okay, let's take a moment. So, Erica, as a parent, you still have to go home. The kids are still gonna jump on you. The kids are still going to want to touch you. So what did parenting look like for, for you during the cycles of treatment that you went through?
[00:27:08] Speaker B: I think, as in most things, like the world doesn't stop and definitely parenting doesn't stop and mothering doesn't stop. Especially with my kids being the age that My son was 3 and my daughter turned 1 just at the top of my treatment. So she obviously didn't know anything one way or the other. The only thing that was very visible for my son at 3 was when I lost my hair. And I think I've always been very age appropriate, open with my children. So he knew. Mommy's got to go to the doctor today. And when you get home, I'm going to be sleep and Nana's going to take care of you tonight and take you to school. But when you get home from school, mommy will be ready. And so it was just part of his rhythm. Thankfully, he wasn't old enough to really understand what risk we were facing. He just knew what going to the doctor was. And I had my port, which was visible just because it's raised a bit. And when he asked me, mommy, what's that? I said, oh, that's where the doctor gives me my medicine every week when I go. Okay. And that was enough for him, thankfully. I'm just. I'm very grateful that as tough as it seems things would be with having kids that small, not having to explain it to them, yes, physically taking care of them was tougher. But like that compared to having to see them understand the risk of it. I'll take the physical strain any day over having to have. If it were to happen now with him being eight, that'd be a different conversation. Very grateful. As scared as I was because I remember one of my cries out when I was on the phone to my sister was like, how am I going to care for my baby? Looking back, I would take the physical. The days where I was physically struggling to just to be. I'll take that over having them had to experience it any way other than what their experience was, if that makes sense. I'll take the physical strain over what it would have done to them mentally or emotionally any day.
[00:29:08] Speaker A: The fear of kids and having to answer their innocent questions for my.
[00:29:15] Speaker B: When I, when I was my hair come to a period of acceptance to that part before it happened. But the when it happened, I was more concerned about what his reaction was going to be when he saw me that morning. When I dropped him off at school, I had hair and when I picked him up, I did that. That I was more concerned about that type of stuff for him. What, what he would understand.
[00:29:39] Speaker A: Sorry, I was just, I was writing a note for what I need to. What I want to come back to. Okay, so let's talk about the hair thing.
[00:29:48] Speaker B: Let's talk about it.
[00:29:49] Speaker A: So what was that like? Did your hair. And let me know if you're uncomfortable but did your hair come out in clumps? Did it come out just lightly in the brush? Did you see hair strands on the pillow? What was that like?
[00:30:03] Speaker B: I was at the time my hair had fallen was coming out. Black women, sometimes we get those like week long hairdos. I was wearing one of those like week long hairdos. So I didn't see the strands and everything coming out. Every triple negative breast cancer Facebook group that I was in, everyone said your hair is going to come out between day 12 and day 15. That's just that that's what it was. And I had my hair done Because I was taking photos with my kids intentionally. I wanted some professional photos done. And so my hair was up in this large bunch around those days. I was actually. No, I did that myself. So when I was combing my hair to put it in the bun, just that, like, ton of hair came out in the comb. I was like, okay, this is it. And I had made arrangements when I was in my knee stages. I had called the girl that was doing my hair at the time, told her what was going on, and I said, the day I see a sign of my hair coming out, I don't care if I got to come in there at 11 o'clock at night after your day, I need you to fit me in to shave my hair. I did not want to go through the. The days and days were just coming out. Like, I didn't want to see all that. My hair was up in a bun, and I could tell it was coming out because, like, my hairline was separating from my head. So if I tugged on the bun a little bit, I can see my whole hairline. So I said, okay. And that was the morning of the pictures. I just let it. It sounds crazy, but I just let it sit on my head. I took the pictures, and then when I took my hair down to comb it, that's when I had the clump of hair in the comb. And I text her, and as promised, she fit me in that day. Fortunately, the salon was empty and it was just the two of us. And so when she taking my hair down, she noticed I had several bald patches already that had likely come out with the bun. So she shaved my head clean that day. Like I said. I dropped my kids off to school that morning with hair, and by the time I picked them up, I did not have hair. But I went straight into a wig because I just thought it would be too traumatic for him if it was gonna be traumatic for him. I didn't want it to be traumatic at school. I wanted it to be at home where we were safe and all that. So I remember sitting there in the chair, and she had my back to the mirror, and I'm just sobbing, crying. As black women, but particularly black women, our hair is such a thing. It's such a thing. And I had done research on what's called cold capping, where you wear this cap that has tubing in it that runs ice water through. Through, for lack of a better word. Maybe it massages your scalp with this ice water to save your hair. I'll do that because everything just has a solution. Oh, yeah, I'll do that. I'll save my hair. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then I learned the cost of that and I was like, eh, maybe not. I don't know that I love my hair that much. And I never, I've never felt like great about my hair. Like my whole life I was like, oh, yeah, my hair is nice on the day I get it done. But I never. Except when my hair. One time in my life my hair was super short. I've never just felt great, great, like my hair is just fabulous. Losing it and starting over was fine with me. It was that time of being bald that just looking towards that was traumatic for me. But she finished cutting my hair and she turned me around and look at myself in the mirror. And I absolutely loved it. I was like, oh, I look pretty good this way. And my head was perfectly shaped. And I dug in my purse and found the brightest lipstick I can find. And I put some hoops on and I strutted out of that salon. I think that was one of the moments where it was like, okay, I can do this. It was supposed to be so scary. I had one chemo treatment by then. I made it through that. I did the hair loss. I actually like it. But first few weeks I was getting head turns at the Home Depot or oh, she's stunning. So many people thought said I looked stunning with bald head. I was like, okay. It was good for my ego and it was good for me mentally and emotionally during the treatment process. Because what was supposed to be one of the big scary things was not only okay, it was great. I took so many pictures of myself just with rocking that bald head. I was loving it until my eyebrows and my eyelashes fell out. But until then I was just. You couldn't tell me nothing.
[00:34:14] Speaker A: Oh, all right. So you went through your treatments, you lost your hair, and so let's talk about reentering life. You went through your treatments, you got the lumpectomy, did you? I from listening to the podcast EPICS episodes that you sent me, you could do. You can get your lumpectomy and you can get your reconstruction at the same time or you can split them apart. What did you do? So let's talk about life after. You were. You got the lumps removed, and so let's talk about life after.
[00:34:50] Speaker B: So just a quick run through my timeline. I had the lumpectomy first. It was like 30 day period between that and starting my chemo treatments. My chemo went for about six and a half months. Then I had another month between finishing Chemo and going in for my double mastectomy. And I had decided with surgeons and my plastic surgeon, I had decided early on with them that, yes, I was getting double mastectomy and that my end goal was to get what's called a deep flap procedure. But the plastic surgeon, although agreed with the deep flap, said I needed to lose a pretty significant amount of weight before he would do that intensive, intensive surgery. So our kind of temporary in between plan was to go get my mastectomy, go straight to implants, and have the implants until I was ready for the deep flap. Now, I could have stayed flat during that time while I lost weight, but I knew for me emotionally, that was not a good choice for me. And so I went straight to implants. And my plan was to start working on losing weight right away, and I would see him the following summer for the deep flap. The following summer was the pandemic. Obviously, while the surgery wasn't considered elective, it wasn't priority as compared to people who were actively undergoing treatment as far as what they were saving the hospital space and all the things. No brainer what was going on then. So that was two summers of waiting, and then life kept happening and I had to lose the weight. So eventually I did have the deep flap surgery, which was to remove the implants and transfer fat from other areas of your body, typically your abdominal area, to recreate breasts that feel much more natural than implants. Some of the things that, like, I wish. Can I stop for a second? I know. I don't know if this is where we transition into this.
[00:36:48] Speaker A: Okay, so you. I know that you can get the implants, you can pull fat from other parts of your body. So you went with the pulling fat from the other parts of your body and then let's go.
[00:36:58] Speaker B: That was definitely my end. That was my end goal, just for the in between, which ended up being a longer period, primarily because two factors, Covid and I needed to lose weight. I had the implants what they were intended to be temporary, but they ended up being temporary for about three and a half years. But yeah, the implants are the right decision for a lot of people. Staying flat is the right decision for a lot of people. And having the deep flap procedure is the right decision for a lot of people. For me, the timeline of which of how things happen ended up being right, because by the time I had the deep flap, I was 100% sure that I did not want to keep the implants forever. Having implants after double mastectomy is different than Having implants where people get them for breast enhancements. You're putting implants in with breast tissue for enhancement. When you're doing it after double mastectomy, you have none of your breast tissue left. So it's just the implants, and it wasn't for me.
[00:38:00] Speaker A: Okay. All right. So where are you now after 2019? Are you able to work out? Are you able to run a marathon if you want? How are you feeling?
[00:38:10] Speaker B: Life after 2019 has had plenty of twists and turns, lots of good twists. Life has happened. I feel great now, definitely. From a physical standpoint, I feel back to normal. New normal, but normal nonetheless. From a mental and emotional space, it's definitely been a ride. I fully expected when I was going through treatment that once it was done, it was going to be done and close that chapter. Just get back to life. I would say from a emotional life. After breast cancer, treatment was far more difficult for me than I ever expected. And there's aspects of it that were more difficult than during treatment. I've talked to a lot of women that have gone through treatment, and when you're in the fight, when you're going through chemo, there's some sense of comfort in knowing that you're physically doing something to fight this invisible thing in your body, which had the purpose of setting out to kill you. Whether it's radiation, you're physically going through something, so you're doing something to actively fight. And when you're done with it, this overwhelming sense of fear came over me, even more so, or a heavier feeling than when I was first diagnosed. Because even when you're first diagnosed, you're going to start fighting. Now the quote unquote fight is done, and you have no idea what may or may not still be going on in your body. And I remember asking the doctor, how often do we do scans? And their answer to me was, oh, we don't do scans on a regular basis. We just check in with you every three months before the start. You phase back to six months, and, you know, we'll see how things are going and how you feel. And I. I said, no, that's not what we're going to do, because I felt fine when you found this one. So just to say that we're going to go forward and just only take action if I start not to feel fine. I felt fine when I had stage two cancer. So we got to come up with a different plan than that. And having to go against those type of guidelines for the medical community, that's what makes it. It Was very similar to me when I had to get back to life after my father died. You think that you're just going to go back to life as normal, but that life does not exist anymore. Thankfully. I'm a person who seeks out therapy when need be. And I got into therapy pretty immediately. When I had to start treatment, I was able to have talk through these feelings and fears and emotions as they were happening. But to finish treatment and to have a double mastectomy, which was literally like one night, Even a double mastectomy now doesn't seem like it's a major surgery, but some people go home the same day after a double mastectomy. I stayed over one night and was only off work for two weeks. It was back at work and still not fully healed, but back at work, dropping my kids off at preschool and going on to work, which is that same road that I went down that day. I got that phone call, and I remember pulling up at work and sitting in the car, having to park in a handicap space because I wasn't fully healed yet, say, okay, I'm supposed to just go back like nothing ever happened. That was crazy to me. Even if my doctor felt bad for me as well. Now I was in managed care at the time. There's just not enough support around that transition. Like, I wasn't even sure if the fight was really over. I had, by that time, gotten the phone call that all. When they tested all my breast tissue, everything was fine. There was no evidence of cancer in my body. But for how long? There's just trying to go back to work and work and function. I had a really tough time.
[00:41:52] Speaker A: So let's pause there for a second. I need to get my head together because I'm like, so let's shift to advocacy, because I think a lot of black women are hesitant. They get white coat syndrome. And I know that the responsibility should be on our medical community to do better. But until that time comes, it sounds like through your journey, there was a lot of self advocacy. Somehow you found the strength to use your voice and say okay, instead of having a mammogram every other year. I know my family history. I know I need to be having mammograms every year. And then to say in that interim period, you're gonna check in on me when every three months, every six months. I would feel more comfortable if you checked in if we did xyz. So can you take us through what advocacy looked like for you and what you would tell someone else? And as they're going through the journey, this journey, or any kind of major medical journey.
[00:42:55] Speaker B: I'll even take a step back from that, I think advocacy, speaking up for yourself, even to be comfortable doing that even before you get to something major. I would say, thankfully I wasn't in a situation where I had to fight too hard to get these things. And maybe it's my personality I come in with. Maybe my energy is such that while always respectful, I think it's pretty clear in my energy. No is not an answer that I'm going to accept. Let's. I heard that plan, but let's come up with something that works for both of us. I do think, and have always been so thankful to the Diane that was seen at the time. She's a woman of color and I had a great relationship with her for years before all of this happened. And I. Even when it came down to sitting me down and having a frank conversation with me about figuring out how I was going to become a mom, that was. She was just very matter of fact with me, very clear. Talked to me as my doctor, but talked to me just woman to woman, because you talked to me about my timing of becoming a mom. My thought is this is what it means for my mammogram. And it was never any sort of pushback from her. It was always. It was. She said it makes perfect sense. And she said, erica, I'm proud of you for thinking ahead in that space. Because that told her one I was taking. I was taking heed to the conversation we had or we had been having about my motherhood journey. And she never pushed back on me for any test I ever wanted, but particularly that one. And when, I guess when she affirmed that for me that I was making the right decision. And she was always a resource that I would go back to if I had questions on what should I say to this other doctor, which was in the same managed care group. And my personal experience, thankfully I didn't experience like a. A huge negative thing with the white coat syndrome. Probably just again, my personality is just such that. No, we're gonna, we gotta heard that now. Let's come up with plan plan B till we find something that works for everyone. And I think the other thing that was helpful to me, it falls into my village because one of my girlfriends, who also had a breast cancer battle that unfortunately she didn't. I don't want to say she didn't win because she gets to go be with God, but her ending was different than mine. I'll say it like that. She worked at the hospital where my treatment was in that same department. And she had also been a patient, so she had seen both sides of it. She knew what doctors to tell me to go to. So I say that as a. The point of that is to tap into your support and find the right support for what it is you need for that part of your journey. Obviously, the support system that I need to help take care of my kids is going to be different than the support system that I need for someone to sit with me at the doctor. Some of my friends would not have been able to sit with me at the doctor, and that's okay. They supported me in the ways that they could. But overall, you've got to just pull from your inner strength, and sometimes that's the same strength that you have to pull from in this whole mommy thing. And you've got to speak up. And if you get in a point where you're feeling uncertain or scared or whatever that feeling may be, I, I just for me was like, okay, think about my kids. I'm not going to let this take me from my kids, at least not without one hell of a fight or.
[00:46:17] Speaker A: Without asking, right, what. What's your need?
[00:46:21] Speaker B: Right. And I also, my other thing is, if you don't give them an opportunity to say no, you also are not giving them an opportunity to say yes. You have to be okay with the possibility of them saying no, because if you don't give them that chance, you also aren't giving them the chance to say yes.
[00:46:35] Speaker A: So, Erica, thank you for sharing that first part of your story. And if you have time, I'd love to have you back for another episode. Are you okay with that?
[00:46:44] Speaker B: I sure am. Thank you so much for having me.
[00:46:46] Speaker A: Thank you for coming on.
Thanks for listening to Start to Finish Motherhood with Aisha. If you want to keep the conversation going, follow Start to Finish Motherhood on Instagram, email
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